Nogo areas for PSNI in Fermanagh: leaked Gardaí intel memo

[Mr Crowley]

THE security services have identified 12 dissident republicans who are key figures in the Continuity IRA, according to a leaked garda intelligence memo.

Gardai stationed along the border have been instructed to monitor and record the movements of the suspects and search their vehicles on sight following recent incidents in Northern Ireland.

The circulation of the suspects’ names and details is part of a clandestine offensive by gardai and the PSNI against the CIRA, which claimed responsibility for the killing of Stephen Carroll, a Catholic member of the PSNI, who was shot dead in Co Armagh last March.

The security services are concerned about an upsurge in CIRA activity in border counties over the past six months.

“Parts of south Fermanagh are now considered ‘no-go areas’ for PSNI patrols because of the CIRA which has established a stronghold in certain areas,” said a security source. “As a result, there is no effective policing of villages like Roslea, Lisnaskea, Newtownbutler and Donagh in Fermanagh. Police patrols that venture into these areas are likely to be attacked. There is no doubt that the CIRA has established itself in these villages. In fact, they are the only republican paramilitary group active in these areas and they have some local support, which makes conducting surveillance on key suspects almost impossible.”

Gardai believe the terrorist group has recruited new members who have no criminal records or past associations with the IRA and is co-operating with other dissident republican groups which oppose the 1998 Good Friday Agreement.

According to a report by the Independent Monitoring Commission, the CIRA has sought to enhance its capabilities through the acquisition of weapons.

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While no supporter of the CIRA or physical force strategy, it is clear to me from the above that the realities on the ground are very different from that portrayed in the media; in terms of the nature and potential for effectiveness of militant organisations.

As time goes by and more young people with little recollection of the Provo campaign become dissillusioned with 6 county politics, it is only to be expected that the CIRA et al will become stronger and potentially more effective. When you have the likes of David Cameron exposing the true British attitude to the GFA whilst boasting that that the "constitutional issue" is "settled" it is only to be expected that more and more young people will choose to resist.

I don't believe that there is any potential for victory in a renewed mid-to-high tempo, armed campaign. That will never stop those who do believe that the potential gains are worthwhile and who will risk their lives in pursuit of this. The fact that more lives will inevitably be lost only highlights the need for the removal of the conditions that motivate people to risk death and hardship rather than endure a life of numbed falsehood and capitulation.

[Oriel27]

my home place is right near Roslea in the south, i ,know the place well.
i dont believe for one minute there is any interest in the vaste majority of folk for it to return to the way is was.
Sure Roslea used to be an awful place to get in and out of with the huge army checkpoint on the monaghan road.
its all gone now and thats great. no more soldiers hiding in ditches or anything like that. there is a great sence of normality in Roslea these days.

[cactusflower]

[quote]

THE security services have identified 12 dissident republicans who are key figures in the Continuity IRA, according to a leaked garda intelligence memo.

Gardai stationed along the border have been instructed to monitor and record the movements of the suspects and search their vehicles on sight following recent incidents in Northern Ireland.

The circulation of the suspects’ names and details is part of a clandestine offensive by gardai and the PSNI against the CIRA, which claimed responsibility for the murder of Stephen Carroll, a Catholic member of the PSNI, who was shot dead in Co Armagh last March.

The security services are concerned about an upsurge in CIRA activity in border counties over the past six months.

Talking their job up, as well as talking about the CIRA.

“Parts of south Fermanagh are now considered ‘no-go areas’ for PSNI patrols because of the CIRA which has established a stronghold in certain areas,” said a security source. “As a result, there is no effective policing of villages like Roslea, Lisnaskea, Newtownbutler and Donagh in Fermanagh. Police patrols that venture into these areas are likely to be attacked. There is no doubt that the CIRA has established itself in these villages. In fact, they are the only republican paramilitary group active in these areas and they have some local support, which makes conducting surveillance on key suspects almost impossible.”

When should we ever believe a word that the security sources say? What does this really mean ?
...

While no supporter of the CIRA or physical force strategy, it is clear from the above that the realities on the ground are very different from that portrayed in the media; in terms of the nature and potential for effectiveness of militant organisations.

As time goes by and more young people with little recollection of the Provo campaign become dissillusioned with 6 county politics, it is only to be expected that the CIRA et al will become stronger and potentially more effective. When you have the likes of David Cameron exposing the true British attitude to the GFA whilst boasting that that the "constitutional issue" is "settled" it is only to be expected that more and more young people will choose to resist.

I don't believe that there is any potential for victory in a renewed mid-to-high tempo, armed campaign. That will never stop those who do believe that the potential gains are worthwhile and who will risk their lives in pursuit of this. The fact that more lives will inevitably be lost only highlights the need for the removal of the conditions that motivate people to risk death and hardship rather than endure a life of numbed falsehood and capitulation.

There are plenty of guys with guns in the gangs in Limerick. They don't offer "potential for victory" either. What is the political perspective and strategy of the "dissident republicans" ?

Where do they want to go, and how to the plan to get there?

[MartinP]

The fact that more lives will inevitably be lost only highlights the need for the removal of the conditions that motivate people to risk death and hardship rather than endure a life of numbed falsehood and capitulation.

Namely British rule.

[HEAVENHELPUS]

Nogo areas in Roslea, Lisnaskea and Donagh. You just have to laugh! I live near to them and that is complete bull. Apart from one or two nutters that the people laugh at, there isn't any support in these areas for the cira.

[mutley]

[quote=cactusflower;1692115]

When should we ever believe a word that the security sources say? What does this really mean ?
...

Are they threating that if people support the CIRA/RIRA or don''t tout on their activities that the people in that area will have to return to the conditions of the past that Oriel described below

my home place is right near Roslea in the south, i ,know the place well.
i dont believe for one minute there is any interest in the vaste majority of folk for it to return to the way is was.
Sure Roslea used to be an awful place to get in and out of with the huge army checkpoint on the monaghan road.
its all gone now and thats great. no more soldiers hiding in ditches or anything like that. there is a great sence of normality in Roslea these days.

[merle haggard]

[quote=cactusflower;1692115][quote]

Talking their job up, as well as talking about the CIRA.

so you dont believe that any substantial threat existsto the British forces in that area ? that its a hoax right ?

When should we ever believe a word that the security sources say? What does this really mean ?

so theres no threat..big hoax . Excuse for overtime .
...

There are plenty of guys with guns in the gangs in Limerick. They don't offer "potential for victory" either. What is the political perspective and strategy of the "dissident republicans" ?

so you you dont differentiate between Limerick drug dealers and armed political activists , just more brain dead crims in your opinion. Why do you not mention the free state army or garda ERU if you believe people just want to run about with guns ? Why drugs gangs ?

Where do they want to go, and how to the plan to get there?

I think they want to move away from a political situation where colonial rule and imperialism in Ireland is normalised and acceptable . I also believe the various republican outlooks and even strategies are vailable online on peoples respective websites .
But perhaps someone wth such a progressive outlook as yourself could point out a better way forward to these confused Limerick drug gang criminal wannabes . Or not , considering you believe any threat they pose to be a mere invention of the state , a fantasy .

[cactusflower]

[quote=merle haggard;1692135][quote=cactusflower;1692115][quote]

so you dont believe that any substantial threat existsto the British forces in that area ? that its a hoax right ?

That is not what I said.

so theres no threat..big hoax . Excuse for overtime .
...

I didn't say there was no threat but I am deeply sceptical of the veracity security statements. If they say its black, its probably red and yellow stripes. . If they are not able to keep up with a situation, why would they be advertising it?
In terms of the scale of the threat, personally, I don't see a threat to the present regime from current activities.

On the overtime side, I doubt you'd argue with that: it doesn't have to be the sole motivation.

so you you dont differentiate between Limerick drug dealers and armed political activists , just more brain dead crims in your opinion. Why do you not mention the free state army or garda ERU if you believe people just want to run about with guns ? Why drugs gangs ?

I obviously do differentiate. I'm not asking what the drug gangs' strategy is. The drug gangs are using their arms a whole lot more than the ERU or army.
The reason I wrote that is that there is a lot of discussion here that doesn't go beyond the issue of whether or not arms should be used. It seems to me it takes precedent over any other issue and fundamentally it is a tactical, not a strategic issue.

I think they want to move away from a political situation where colonial rule and imperialism in Ireland is normalised and acceptable .

There are surely a lot of ways of doing that at this stage that don't include using arms.

I also believe the various republican outlooks and even strategies are vailable online on peoples respective websites .

I'm looking. Would there be any chance of a few links?

But perhaps someone wth such a progressive outlook as yourself could point out a better way forward to these confused Limerick drug gang criminal wannabes . Or not , considering you believe any threat they pose to be a mere invention of the state , a fantasy .

I'm trying to learn here, as well as give my opinion, for what its worth.

[merle haggard]

[quote=cactusflower;1692242][quote=merle haggard;1692135][quote=cactusflower;1692115][quote]

That is not what I said.

well if its not true then its not true . You were clearly sceptical

I didn't say there was no threat but I am deeply sceptical of the veracity security statements. If they say its black, its probably red and yellow stripes. . If they are not able to keep up with a situation, why would they be advertising it?
In terms of the scale of the threat, personally, I don't see a threat to the present regime from current activities.

Id say a foreign regime which cannot go into an area it occupies unless heavily armed , in armoured vehicles and in a tactical fashion relying on intelligence assessments beforehand from covert military forces faces a certain level of threat . Id argue that if that threat increases to the point where it needs the assistance of overt military forces then that regime stand openly condemened as a foreign occupation , something its desperately keen to avoid . Because thats a real threat to it , its legiitmacy iis questioned.
Its then he successful political challenge to that regimes legitmacy and its defence of that politically which is where the real threat is .

On the overtime side, I doubt you'd argue with that: it doesn't have to be the sole motivation.

Or theres just a very good chance of them being blown to smithereens by an ied or coming under heavy gunfire or a rocket attack in that area . Its come close a few times already and they reckon its a matter of when and not if . Hence they are extremely cautious and reluctant to be blown up and will only enter for a very good reason and heavily reliant upon covert surveillance and intelligence .

I obviously do differentiate. I'm not asking what the drug gangs' strategy is. The drug gangs are using their arms a whole lot more than the ERU or army.

it doesnt look like you do . You asked why these political activists dont just join one of the limericks drugs gangs . You clearly implied criminal intent and purpose . Gangsterism as their main motivation , a Paul Williams analysis .

The reason I wrote that is that there is a lot of discussion here that doesn't go beyond the issue of whether or not arms should be used. It seems to me it takes precedent over any other issue and fundamentally it is a tactical, not a strategic issue.

If its a tactical issue only then it clearly does not take precedent , and tactical and strategic are one and the same thing . The enemies strategic objectives are ulsterisation , normalisation , criminalisation and making British rule in some form acceptable , legitimate and workable in Ireland . There can be no questioning of the legitmacy of the British presence . That was central to their treaty - the occupation had to be accepted as fully legitimate under NATOs / USAs Mitchell principles . Acceptance of its unquestioned legitmacy was the entry fee into the so called negotiations , with the outcome then predtermined before theyd begun . Articles 2&3 which also called the legitmacy of Britians occupation into question had to go too . Armed British troops on Irish streets very simply calls the entire legitmacy of the British occupation openly into question . Had Irish political leadrs challenged British legitmacy instead of affirming it then it might not seem as necessary . But once that legitmacy is openly challenged by whatever means at hand then it makes the successful political challenge to it a much more amenable solution . Conflict resolution must also be framed in that context .
I believe that once Britian is forced to play that overt military card its in deep trouble as is any Irish political leader or party in the north that supports their rule while bleating about their patriotism . I dont believe Britian will have any further cards to play after that point , only the military one and any nationalist leader still at their side will find himself in deep trouble . I dont envisage yet another GFA , yet another stormont or yet another Sunningdale as the proposed solution to the insurgency this time .
Hows thats capitalised upon politically and persued is another matter but the opportunity to capitalise will certainly present itself in that scenario .

There are surely a lot of ways of doing that at this stage that don't include using arms.

There are lots of ways Im sure , but equally that point could be put to the British . If they need arms and troops to continue ruling in Ireland then you perhaps might be better off questioning their strategy and morality . But at the end of the day its the only language they understand , lets not kid ourselves . Nothing says Brits out any clearer than a dead Brit . I hope your not going to pull the old Daniel OConnell argument out .

I'm looking. Would there be any chance of a few links?

you could try those


idfu

nol


pid

nop

dp

Ultimately however the anglo Irish conflict revolves around the issues of national sovereignty and national self determination . Britians right to violate Irish sovereignty and democracy and determine Irelands future for it must be subjected to an international challenge and under the rules of international law . Not makey uppy Mitchell principles and such ballsology emanating from a NATO ally and fellow imperialist power posing as a neutral party to the conflict (which even Britan claims to be as well)

Britians violation of various charters of international law in Ireland pertaining to national sovereignty and national self determination is an issue which should be persued in the persuit of conflict resolution .

UNsubmission

I'm trying to learn here, as well as give my opinion, for what its worth.

thats well and good and I value that . However id like to point out that when you compare people to limericks drugs gangs then you should not be surprised if your oinion and queries are received as hositility and criminalisation .

[mothball]

Drive through areas of south Fermanagh and see if you can find a cop car with a speed gun out the window. If they enter the area, it wouldn’t be to carry out any routine operations you might expect from the Gardaí.
There are virtual racetracks along the border because people know that they won’t be stopped. Its common knowledge that it’s a no go area. They’re even unlikely to show up to the scene of an accident.