Dissolve the United Kingdom?

[DSCH]

If the UK dissolved, FG would lose its raison d'etre. :wink:

All constituent elements of the UK would be economically viable in this era of free trade. Would they be politically viable?

The cause of Scottish and Welsh separatism (the North is a case apart) would get a tremendous boost from the election of an overtly British Nationalist Tory party. The Tory party doesn't pretend that the British state is anything other than the structural manifestation of Greater England, though the mentality of British Nationalism is misleadingly known as Little Englander.

[FutureTaoiseach]

If this would mean an independent NI then I don't want that. How would it be governed? Who would be the referee up there if things exploded again like in 1972?

[holdini]

I don't think Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would be able to survive economically on their own and the people there know it.

The same was said about Ireland.

[emmet100]

I don't think Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would be able to survive economically on their own and the people there know it.

The same was said about Ireland.

I know and to a certain extent, the Republic was a failed state up until the 1990s.

[Rocky]

I don't think Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would be able to survive economically on their own and the people there know it.

Thats right.

Hmm.. don't think Scotland would have had much bother at all surviving as a completely independent entity.

Just imagine what a country it would be if it only had to share out the North Sea gas and oil wealth amongst 6 million people instead of 50 million.

Well the question is, is Scotland bringing in a surplus into the British exchequer right now? If it isn't then it would struggle for a long time, like we did. I do think it would sort itself out eventually though. If it is bringing in a surplus then it's grand.

[true04]

I don't think Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would be able to survive economically on their own and the people there know it.

The same was said about Ireland.

I know and to a certain extent, the Republic was a failed state up until the 1990s.

And would still be if it were not for the massive handouts we got from the EC, the tens of billions we borrowed ( and still owe ) and the safety valve of our people in times past being able to emigrate to UK, US etc and send the few bob home.

[FutureTaoiseach]

I don't think Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would be able to survive economically on their own and the people there know it.

The same was said about Ireland.

I know and to a certain extent, the Republic was a failed state up until the 1990s.

In what sense a failed state? There were many successes. The economic problems need to be seen in a particular context, including having to redress a huge imbalance resulting from centuries of sectarian economic policies which held back Catholic Ireland to the benefit of Protestant Ireland - which was overwhelmingly in the UK. The 26 counties constituting most of the Catholic part of the Ireland started of with just 20% of the island's industrial output compared to 76% now. Later on, protectionist economic policies and excessive statism held us back. But it was not independence itself that got us into that mess. The underlying point is that without independence would could not have achieved the Celtic Tiger and would still be the poor relation on the island.

Regarding Scotland and Wales, I think Scotland's oil reserves in particular would even now make it a prosperous independent country. They can learn from our mistakes before the 90's and avoid them, but independence itself was not a mistake.

And would still be if it were not for the massive handouts we got from the EC, the tens of billions we borrowed ( and still owe ) and the safety valve of our people in times past being able to emigrate to UK, US etc and send the few bob home.

I feel that the free-trade in the EU and economic reforms in the late 80's-early 90's played a bigger role. I don't accept the thesis that it was Brussels handouts alone that got us where we are. To suggest otherwise seems to me to under-rate the abilities of the Irish people to run their own affairs successfully.

[true04]

And would still be if it were not for the massive handouts we got from the EC, the tens of billions we borrowed ( and still owe ) and the safety valve of our people in times past being able to emigrate to UK, US etc and send the few bob home.

I feel that the free-trade in the EU and economic reforms in the late 80's-early 90's played a bigger role. I don't accept the thesis that it was Brussels handouts alone that got us where we are. To suggest otherwise seems to me to under-rate the abilities of the Irish people to run their own affairs successfully.

"I don't accept the thesis that it was Brussels handouts alone that got us where we are".[/ Nobody suggested it was Brussels ( more German and British money than Belgium actually but that is another point ) handouts alone that got us where we are. There are many factors. I just mentioned three , there are many more.

[Sidewinder]

We didn't set the world alight between 1920 and 1959, but as has already been pointed out - after hundreds of years of British rule, the Tan war, and the Civil War, we weren't exactly starting off on the best foot. And in the context of what was going on in the world in the 1930s, managing to avoid extremism and retain a democratic Republic was actually something of an achievement.

The Lemass years showed what Independence could achieve in fairly spectacular style. Unfortunately we then had 20 years of, and let's be honest, rubbish Government. We eventually learned our lessons and from 87 onwards had good Governments that knew what they were doing (more or less, and ignoring the Ahern years which were mostly coasting on the achievements of others).

Does no-one ever find it strange that all the components of Greater Ingerlund - Scotland, Wales and Norn Irn - all suffer from the exact same economic issues? It's simple and obvious, though no-one seems to want to face up to it.

Dependancy drugs. No more, no less.

[padraig]

And would still be if it were not for the massive handouts we got from the EC, the tens of billions we borrowed ( and still owe ) and the safety valve of our people in times past being able to emigrate to UK, US etc and send the few bob home.

I feel that the free-trade in the EU and economic reforms in the late 80's-early 90's played a bigger role. I don't accept the thesis that it was Brussels handouts alone that got us where we are. To suggest otherwise seems to me to under-rate the abilities of the Irish people to run their own affairs successfully.

"I don't accept the thesis that it was Brussels handouts alone that got us where we are".[/ Nobody suggested it was Brussels ( more German and British money than Belgium actually but that is another point ) handouts alone that got us where we are. There are many factors. I just mentioned three , there are many more.

I think people should remember that although the South of Ireland did recieved EU handouts, it also signed away its fishing right to the EU, which more then covered any handouts recieved in value during that period.