MI5 and Omagh - The Bomb to End All Bombs?

[Worldbystorm]

One of the winners was the PIRA and SF. By your logic of "look who benefited by a load of dead civilians which created a backlash against dissidents" we must suspect SF of imvolvement and knowledge of this bombing.
But that would be bollix. Im only pointing out where your argument is leading.
The RIRA was severly hampered by the Gardai. Yup, our very own boys in blue. They collared McKevitt, they collared Campbell.
As for British knowledge of this act, I mean come on. Republicans have slaughtered civilians in the past (look what Enniskillen and the Shankill bomb did to IRA support) but they survived. Why would the RIRA be any different? All they had to do was put the head down for 6 months, apologise, and they could well survive as an organisation. If I was an MI5 mandarin, Id say to myself, 'well a Republican atrocity could push the Loyalists to commit an atrocity, which would then lead to the PIRA ending the ceasefire'.
The RIRA f***** up on their own. Its their fault. Accept it.

Good points meriwether, particularly relating to the lack of a loyalist response. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed. The problem is on the one hand everyone benefitted politically from this. The British because it bedded down the GFA and gave everyone a good long look into the abyss. The Irish govt for the same reason. SF/PIRA because it strengthened them politically. The dissidents because over half a decade later they could claim it was all a conspiracy. But that fact, that there were benefits doesn't retrofit the argument that it was a conspiracy.

People died because a RIRA unit planted a bomb in the centre of a busy market town. When it comes down to it those who drove the car, those who planned the operation and those who brought together the materials and manpower to carry it out knew what they were doing, knew that it was a risky venture, knew that it could go wrong and probably knew that their level of expertise at this sort of job was many levels lower than PIRAs had been and that their level of political capital - and therefore cover - was considerablly lower than the PSF/PIRA. The instant one decides to plant a bomb, the instant one depends on conveying information through telephone calls to emergency services, the instant one is carrying explosives around in a car the possibility for mishap goes off the scale. With all that knowledge the blame inevitably devolves back to RIRA.

[Bogwarrior]

I'm not convinced by any of the points above. Precise warnings were given, yet were ignored. Why. Indeed the victims were herded towards the bomb(though no police were injured). Omagh was chosen as a target by an MI5 agent. It's a mainly Nationalist town, which at the time had a "dissident" Republican Councillor. This is why there was no Loyalist backlash. Also, Loyalist paramilitary leaders revealed the day after that they would not respond as they were given a personal assurance by Mo Mowlam, that there would be a drastic State clampdown on "dissident Republicans.
Provisionals also threatened over 80 members, of the 32CSM , in their homes days later, whilst Gardai Special Branch sat in their cars watching. Mo Mowlam publicly welcomed the threats, and said they were "helpful". The whole event was designed to wipe out resistance to the pacification of the Provisionals. I've no doubt more revelations will be uncovered in years to come, and I'm confident historians will look at Omagh as a State engineered atrocity. I believe a similar case happened in Italy in the 70s with Leftist guerillas.

[Worldbystorm]

Bogwarrior, are you actually examining the evidence?

First up there were at least 3 acknowledged bomb warnings over Omagh - cf wiki. These were not precise. Even had they or others been due to the fact that at least three were incorrect it confused the situation.

Of the three, each gave incorrect information that the bomb was either at the courthouse or 200 yards from it. It was in fact 400 yards away. These warnings were given 40 and over minutes before the bomb went off. If the RUC were confused who can blame them? As for your point regarding no security forces being injured - your impilcation seems to be that on the ground they knew where the bomb was planted and were herding people towards it. That's clearly impossible. The intended target according to RIRA sources and backed up in Mooney and O'Tooles book, and by the warnings, was the courthouse - however on the day the bombers were unable to park close to it and had to settle for a space at the 400 yard distance. How would the RUC know the precise location where they would park?

Now, as a disinterested observer it strikes me that they should have driven it out of town and abandoned it. Why didn't they? There were forty one minutes between the last phone call and the explosion. Enough time to get rid of the car. At the end of the day you cannot deny the responsibility of those who authorised and implemented the bombing.

It is alleged in the RTE report that MI5 had information that a bomb was going to be planted in advance. However, the issue is was their level of knowledge sufficient to tell the date, or the size or precise location. I find it doubtful - RIRA was a leaky bucket, but even so. Realistically the RUC couldn't throw a ring of steel around the town every day on the off chance this was going to happen. And information from informers is notoriously difficult to evaluate - if it wasn't PIRA and the RIRA and CIRA would have been shut down years before. And, again, at the end of the day the RIRA authorised the bombing and carried it out.

You also seem to have a belief that this sort of operation is complete and planned down to the very last detail. It's not. Everything is subject to any one of millions of factors, is there a road block, is there more surveillance than expected, is the bomb going to trigger unexpectedly. At the very least there was no serious effort to avoid loss of life, to plan for contingencies (such as a lack of parking), to do anything other than deliver an explosive device into the heart of a packed market town (Mooney and O'Toole say the bombers didn't even know it was a festival day, but any Saturday it was a busy town as anyone who has been through it could tell you). You claim it was chosen by an MI5 agent - but how come all the rest of the RIRA players become passive spectators in this process. No-one said stop? It's untenable. As for there being a dissident republican councillor. Well, so what? Evidence once more of the appalling botch job in political terms - entirely putting aside any other consideration. (and by the way would it have been a more legitimate target if it hadn't a dissident councillor?).

[meriwether]

The courthouse is down the hill approx 400 yards from the actual bomb site. Omagh high street isn't New York, it isn't that hard to give an approx warning.
By the way, the bomb was planted outside a school uniform shop, 7-10 days before school started, just to give an idea of the depravity of the bombers.
Oh and Bog, saying Republicans "must share the blame for Omagh" is like saying the paratroopers must share in the blame for Bloody Sunday.

[badinage]

These were the warnings:

*Received by Ulster Television at 14:30
"There's a bomb, courthouse, Omagh, main street, 500 pounds, explosion 30 minutes."

*Received by the Coleraine office of the 'Samaritans' charity, 14:32
"Am I through to Omagh? This is a bomb warning. It's going to go off in 30 minutes." [followed possibly by a further piece of information specifying 200 yards from the courthouse].

*Received by Ulster Television at 14:35
"Bomb, Omagh town, 15 minutes."

On the 18th of August the 'Real' IRA admitted responsibility for the massacre but, unbelievably, blamed the security forces for the deaths. In a statement they said that they had given 3 clear, 40 minute warnings; that they had said the bomb was 300-400 yards from the courthouse and that they had specified a commercial target. They also said that the bomb had gone off at the intended location. They concluded by saying that the attack was "part of the ongoing war against the Brits. We offer apologies to the civilians".

In a statement in December 2001, the RIRA said:

As a result of recent events surrounding the ombudsman's report into the Omagh bombing, the leadership of Óglaigh na hÉireann, following one of the longest investigations in its history, would like to clarify certain aspects of this terrible tragedy.

We can confirm that MI5 handled two agent provocateurs, whose identities are known to us. One operated in the north/west area and the other in the north/east region. These agents were instrumental in the planning and implementation of the bombing that occurred that day.

At the time, given their background, we believed them to be genuine republicans, even though they belonged to a different organisation.

They were not our members but had dealings with certain individuals within our ranks.

Because of this co-operation and their use of our code word for three warnings, we felt a moral obligation to accept responsibility for the bombing.

[merle haggard]

What they are all saying above is that MI5 dont do murderous conspiracies , despite an unending stream of evidence to the contrary . And wikipedia is certainly not a reliable source of information in a case like this . Anyone can put stuff on it . Ive read stuff on other subjects thats patent nonsense .

Mansfield revealed precise warnings were given . These warnings would have been instantly and precisely recorded in Omagh RUC stations log book . Surprise , surprise it disappeared from Omagh RUC station , just grew legs and walked apparently . When Mansfield began to question the cops about the warnings they hid behind solictors and refused to answer in court . Why would they do that ?

Nuala OLoan gives a report that clearly says literally 100s of witness statements and pieces of evidence were destroyed , altered and completely rewritten by the RUC special branch supposedly investigating the attack . Around 300 seperate pieces of evidence destroyed ,altered or completely fabricated according to the Ombudswoman . They didnt investigate the attack - thats very clear. Why is that ?

The MI5 agent who planned the attack is pulled out of the jurisdiction were he operated completely illegally immediately afterwards . Another man believed to have constructed the bomb , and who was identified as the bombmaker by an informant was never questioned . Still hasnt been to this day . Ronnie Flanagan said he "wasnt a suspect and never will be" , but Flanagan had to resign because he was lying . But no conspiracy or cover up .

It later turns out that the cops in Omagh were specifically warned on August 4th by a serving Special Branch officer thered be an attack on the 15th in Omagh . But not only were there no checkpoints most of the cops were actually sent out of the town for the day . Despite it being a garrison town all British soldiers in Omagh , 1000s of them , were confined to base for the day , by their own admission because of an intelligence briefing .

And the bomb car , fitted with a tracker and followed by a military satellite was allowed go through unmolested by a senior officer in Garda special branch , himself trained by MI5 and liasing with them on a daily basis . He quit his job and fled Ireland the minute Garda John White who ran the informant Dixon began to dish the dirt .

But according to the posters above none of this matters , it was a simple blunder by the Reals . Nothing suspicious , nothing to see here...move along .

[DanB]

These were the warnings:

*Received by Ulster Television at 14:30
"There's a bomb, courthouse, Omagh, main street, 500 pounds, explosion 30 minutes."

*Received by the Coleraine office of the 'Samaritans' charity, 14:32
"Am I through to Omagh? This is a bomb warning. It's going to go off in 30 minutes." [followed possibly by a further piece of information specifying 200 yards from the courthouse].

The warnings were poorly recorded. The second warning went on for ten minutes, yet only tiny pieces of information were recorded. The number 500 was given as the distance of the courthouse, yet it was incorrectly recorded as the size. The RUC ignored all but the first warning and acted on it and not the more reliable subsequent warnings.

Everything sticks very bad. 'The bomb to end all bombs' is very plausable.

[Bogwarrior]

My understanding is that all calls to Samaritans are audio-taped, and there is(or was ) a copy of the warning which Badinage said was unclear, and "may" have stated "300 yards from the Courthouse, on the Main St". Which was basically correct.
Where is the copy of the recording? Is this "lost" too?

[badinage]

The second warning went on for ten minutes, yet only tiny pieces of information were recorded.

Ten minutes!? What on earth did they talk about for ten whole minutes?

What are you basing that on?

[Libero]

Where is the copy of the recording? Is this "lost" too?

You mean the brave heroes of Omagh didn't record their own warning? That they were relying on others to do it for them? As it happens, we already have the testimony - on record at inquest and coroner's court, I belive - as to the content of warnings and how bloody useless they were. Now if friends-of-RIRA want to have us disgard the sworn testimony of non-political types like those working for Samaritans and concentrate instead on the alleged lack of recordings, that's quite a request.

The level of wishful thinking here is awesome. And so is the dishonesty. After all, in any other context, republicans would tell us that they wouldn't trust the security services for a moment and would presume that they would take the most anti-republican action. Yet now the friends-of-RIRA have us believe that back in 1998, the bombers were naively relying on the security forces to put their own lives at risk and evacuate the location.