Plans for new military parade in Belfast halted

[luckyfrank]

The 1916 rising would never have happened but for the establishment of the Ulster Volunteers who pledged to resist home rule by military means.

The Irish volunteers who carried out 1916 were set up only in response to the Ulster volunteers.

Prior to 1914 Irish Nationalists were represented by the Home Rule party, which was moderate and mostly pro-British.


The chain of events leading to 1916 was caused by establishment of the Ulster Volunteers.

The Ulster Volunteers were the first to import weapons from Britain's enemy Germany

So what your saying is the whole island would still be part of the united kingdom if it had not being for the paranoia of the ulster volunteers ?

Which is probably true funny to think what ireland would have being like if home rule had of being passed

What would the future have being like

[Breadan O'Connor]

So what your saying is the whole island would still be part of the united kingdom if it had not being for the paranoia of the ulster volunteers ?

Which is probably true funny to think what ireland would have being like if home rule had of being passed

What would the future have being like

John Redmond was arguably the most pro-British leader Irish Nationalists ever had.

Redmond was even prepared to concede some autonomy to the Unionists.


But they chose to defy the democratic will of the British parliament and the majority of the Irish people by threatening military action and importing German weapons.

Without the Ulster volunteers the Irish volunteers would never have been formed.


It should be said that Sinn Fein had no role in planning the Easter Rising either.


The rising involved only the Irish volunteers and the Citizen army, and the IRB

[SlabMurphy]

Francis Hughes was one of the all Ireland slimming champions. His name is often on Scum Fein banners, the GAA event have awards named after him.

Republican hero, in reality he murdered a 9 yr old child, and maimed another by putting a car bomb under their dads car.

The two pizza loving brits who got whacked at Massereene Barracks have won the 2009 slimmers of the year

[merle haggard]

[quote=Breadan O'Connor;1508381]

The 1916 rising would never have happened but for the establishment of the Ulster Volunteers who pledged to resist home rule by military means.

nonsense . It happened because Britain was in occupation of Irish territory . The UVF only opposed Home rule in ulster . The IRB were opposed to home rule full stop .

The Irish volunteers who carried out 1916 were set up only in response to the Ulster volunteers.

the UVF provided the opportunity for the IRB to sponsor such a front which mimicked certain aspects of the UVF , which they quickly lost control of , and the vast majority of whom absconded with most of the howth rilfes and joined the British army and Home guard . Many of them even fought the rebels on easter week or took subversive elemts captive in the rest of the country . The Irish Citizens Army also played quite a prominet role in the uprising . Confined to Dublin in the main .
The military force declared itself to be the Irish Republican Army . Hence it was not interested in Home rule , but a republic . Which it proclaimed and announced a national provisonal government was in existence .

Prior to 1914 Irish Nationalists were represented by the Home Rule party, which was moderate and mostly pro-British.

I think youll find they were just as strongly represented by these people on the morning of easter monday 1916 as they were in 1914 . The rising attracted no popular support whatsoever .

The chain of events leading to 1916 was caused by establishment of the Ulster Volunteers.

It was caused by the fact Britian claimed sovereignty over Ireland . If you look at the 1916 proclamation youll not see one mention of the words home rule . You will however see the words sovereignty and sovereign repeated and emphasised continuously from start to finish . Regardless of the UVF there would still have been an uprising , it may have taken a different form , and may even have been more successful . But i think youll find the warm greeting given by the Irish multitudes to a visiting british monarch prior to the UVFs formation sparked the decison to have a rebellion at any cost once the opportunity presented itself . Which the world war provided . Pearse , Connolly , elents of the IRB and Clann na nGael in the states were committed to a rebellion as a matter of necessity . They recognised home rule was drawing the irish psyche and nation firmly under the banner of the empire . What they wanted was a clear breach between Ieland and empire and a rebirth of the Irish nation under the banners of seperatism and sovereignty .

The Ulster Volunteers were the first to import weapons from Britain's enemy Germany

they werent enemeies at that period .

[merle haggard]

[quote=Breadan O'Connor;1508786]

John Redmond was arguably the most pro-British leader Irish Nationalists ever had.

Redmond was even prepared to concede some autonomy to the Unionists.

arguably hes no more pro British than John Hume , Gerry Adams or indeed pretty much any of the other nationlaist leaders north and south . Particularly post articles 2&3 and stormont treaty which recognises British sovereignty over irish territory and the unionist veto as fully legitimate

But they chose to defy the democratic will of the British parliament and the majority of the Irish people by threatening military action and importing German weapons.

they demanded a veto . They secured it . All nationalist political parties uphold it today , as does the southern states constitution . Therefore its been retrospectively approved by the Irish people as a democratic exercise if one views todays constitutional status quo as legitimate

Without the Ulster volunteers the Irish volunteers would never have been formed.

quite possibly true . However the Citizens army were a different kettle of fish . As were the clandestine republican speratist groupings . There would still have been an uprising as all were committed to one and had been even prior to the home rule crisis . It would just have had a few different personalities . It may well have viewed the trade unions and GAA of holding the best hope for an open front had there been no open volunteer organuiation . But a rising was on the cards regrdless of the UVF and Home Rule , particularly once war broke out in europe and Britians difficulty became Irelands opportunity .

It should be said that Sinn Fein had no role in planning the Easter Rising either.

true . But an inexplicable British error ensured its dual monarchist leadership benefitted immensely from it .

The rising involved only the Irish volunteers and the Citizen army, and the IRB

to be more accurate its origins lay accross the Atlantic in New York and Chicago with Clann na nGael and the surviving old fenians and arose more strongly as a notion out of the Irish race convention held there ( as identifed later by Lenin among others). It was they who decided upon it and sponsored it and whio gave boirth to the idea . They who identified and chose Pearse as the leader . And to they whom Pearse answered and sought fdirection and approval from . The vast majority of the IRB itself much less the volunteer front organisation were completely unaware . The secret self appointed ( at the clanns urging) and self selected military council of the IRB did not even consult its IRB supreme council of its plans for an unprising . Quite a good idea really given the horrified reaction to it when they found out .

[Breadan O'Connor]

[quote=merle haggard;1544362]

arguably hes no more pro British than John Hume , Gerry Adams or indeed pretty much any of the other nationlaist leaders north and south . Particularly post articles 2&3 and stormont treaty which recognises British sovereignty over irish territory and the unionist veto as fully legitimate



they demanded a veto . They secured it . All nationalist political parties uphold it today , as does the southern states constitution . Therefore its been retrospectively approved by the Irish people as a democratic exercise if one views todays constitutional status quo as legitimate



quite possibly true . However the Citizens army were a different kettle of fish . As were the clandestine republican speratist groupings . There would still have been an uprising as all were committed to one and had been even prior to the home rule crisis . It would just have had a few different personalities . It may well have viewed the trade unions and GAA of holding the best hope for an open front had there been no open volunteer organuiation . But a rising was on the cards regrdless of the UVF and Home Rule , particularly once war broke out in europe and Britians difficulty became Irelands opportunity .




true . But an inexplicable British error ensured its dual monarchist leadership benefitted immensely from it .




to be more accurate its origins lay accross the Atlantic in New York and Chicago with Clann na nGael and the surviving old fenians and arose more strongly as a notion out of the Irish race convention held there ( as identifed later by Lenin among others). It was they who decided upon it and sponsored it and whio gave boirth to the idea . They who identified and chose Pearse as the leader . And to they whom Pearse answered and sought fdirection and approval from . The vast majority of the IRB itself much less the volunteer front organisation were completely unaware . The secret self appointed ( at the clanns urging) and self selected military council of the IRB did not even consult its IRB supreme council of its plans for an unprising . Quite a good idea really given the horrified reaction to it when they found out .

I started a thread about the UVF putting the gun in Irish politics a few months ago. Politics.ie - The Irish Politics Website

[greasytrucker]

The two pizza loving brits who got whacked at Massereene Barracks have won the 2009 slimmers of the year

No Bobby Sands was allowed to keep the trophy on behalf of the Maze slimfast club.

[greasytrucker]

[quote=Breadan O'Connor;1547256]

I started a thread about the UVF putting the gun in Irish politics a few months ago. Politics.ie - The Irish Politics Website

Rubbish, what about the Fenians.

[Breadan O'Connor]

Rubbish, what about the Fenians.

In the years prior to 1912, the IRB or fenians were a tiny movement with little support. It was the actions of the UVF which breathed life back into militant republicanism. The Irish volunteers were formed in direct to the UVF and it was they who were the main force in 1916.


I bet you didn't even know that Sinn Fein had no role in the 1916 rising. Prior to 1916 Sinn Fein was advocating peaaceful separation from Britain.