Register to Comment
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 36
  1. #1
    Cael Cael is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    31,417

    The alienation of Irish citizenship in the GFA

    To accept the British state as the legitimate guardian of sovereign power is to focus ones desire on the British state on the basis of not having sovereign power. On the other hand, to contest sovereign power on the grounds that the British state has it in Ireland because it has deprived the Irish people of it, is to open the possibility of a permanent claim based on the fact that the Irish people can have it, and, in fact, have the right to it.

    Anyone who accepts that the British state holds legitimate sovereign power in Ireland must always address his desire to the British government. All questions must be addressed to the Crown - particularly the question of his own desire. The Crown's answer must always be waited on. Such an Irish person, I do not say Irish citizen, is alienated in waiting for this answer, as the child is alienated in its mother's expectations, or the worker is alienated in his boss's commands. In each of these cases, the desire of the individual is subjected to the desire of another - another who has been put in the position of the Master.

    Soon the individual begins to anticipate his Master's desire, and base his own desire on that anticipation. Thus the road to identification has begun - and how many of the world's Slaves identify with their Masters? Nearly all. In fact identification with the desire of the Master is the very hallmark of the truely enslaved. Identification is always alienation, always moving away from yourself, losing yourself - using the language of YOUR CHOSEN Master. Such identification may even provoke acts of rebellion - but it is always rebellion within the context laid down by the Master. Ultimately it is a demand to the Master for another answer - be that answer civil rights within the Master's law or so many positions in the Master's state structure.

    In short, the GFA is such a choosing of a privileged Master, choosing of one who will provide structure and provide answers. How many times have the British government been called on to sort out the nasty Unionists, and get things back on track? How desperate is the alienated individual to believe that the chosen Master really can give such an answer?

    The desperation increases when the British government show how little real aptitude they have for the role. The desperation becomes painful until the Master can demonstrate some little magic trick to re-confirm his position of Mastery - such as the St. Andrews masquerade and the reigning in of Ian Paisley with a few well timed threats and bribes. Its yet another alienation; reveling in the mastery of the Master. Its a short road then to blocking young Nationalists from commemorating internment, while refusing to vote against the British army parading through an Irish town. Total loss of self.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  2. #2
    mairteenpak mairteenpak is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,752

    Re: The alienation of Irish citizenship in the GFA

    Did the people of Ireland not endorse the GFA?


    These renegade attacks are the manifestation of a personal vendetta hate war rather than a mandated struggle for independence.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  3. #3
    Aindriu Aindriu is offline
    Aindriu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    17,275

    Re: The alienation of Irish citizenship in the GFA

    Quote Originally Posted by mairteenpak
    Did the people of Ireland not endorse the GFA?.
    They most certainly did but that means nothing to those amadons in the RIRA. The word democracy isn't in their dictionary.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  4. #4
    múscailte múscailte is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,897

    Re: The alienation of Irish citizenship in the GFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Aindriu
    Quote Originally Posted by mairteenpak
    Did the people of Ireland not endorse the GFA?.
    They most certainly did but that means nothing to those amadons in the RIRA. The word democracy isn't in their dictionary.
    I have no time for the RIRA, or indeed the CIRA who Cael's party would support. However, you seem to be forgetting that the British, the architects of the GFA, have never been interested in democracy in the case of Irish affairs. This is why the country was partitioned and why there has never been, and under the GFA will never be, a 32 County vote on the issue of Irish unity and sovereignty. Giving 1/5 of the population of this country a seemingly perpetual veto is not democratic.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  5. #5
    mairteenpak mairteenpak is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,752

    Re: The alienation of Irish citizenship in the GFA

    But we have had a 32 county vote on the same proposal which people were free to reject or approve as they saw fit and the people have spoken.

    The people on a 32 county basis have agreed that a united Ireland will only occur in accordance with the GFA
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  6. #6
    múscailte múscailte is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,897

    Re: The alienation of Irish citizenship in the GFA

    Quote Originally Posted by mairteenpak
    But we have had a 32 county vote on the same proposal which people were free to reject or approve as they saw fit and the people have spoken.

    The people on a 32 county basis have agreed that a united Ireland will only occur in accordance with the GFA
    They weren't given any other choice; it was GFA yes or no. Until such times as there is a 32 County unity referendum, devoid of inbuilt vetos, there will not be a democratic solution to the British question.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  7. #7
    A guy called Dave A guy called Dave is offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    699

    Re: The alienation of Irish citizenship in the GFA

    Quote Originally Posted by múscailte
    Quote Originally Posted by Aindriu
    Quote Originally Posted by mairteenpak
    Did the people of Ireland not endorse the GFA?.
    They most certainly did but that means nothing to those amadons in the RIRA. The word democracy isn't in their dictionary.
    I have no time for the RIRA, or indeed the CIRA who Cael's party would support. However, you seem to be forgetting that the British, the architects of the GFA, have never been interested in democracy in the case of Irish affairs. This is why the country was partitioned and why there has never been, and under the GFA will never be, a 32 County vote on the issue of Irish unity and sovereignty. Giving 1/5 of the population of this country a seemingly perpetual veto is not democratic.
    Am I vampire or something?
    Because when I read that, I'm put under the impression that due to being born Brit, I have a life expectancy of hundreds of years. It's quite some revelation to hear that Blair himself was an architect of the partition ( him being one of those spooky ageless 'Brits' you're talking about ).
    Of course it could be someone completely different, from a different era of time but that's just ridiculous

    More ageless Brit tales..."

    the Brits have never liked monkeys..they hung one, as a spy, during the Napoleonic war"

    "Of course there was trouble between Roma and United fans...what about the prior ruckus between Boudicea and the Roman army!? The Italians have obviously been biding their time"

    "Amy Winehouse taking heroin you say? No doubt the East India company is at the bottom of that one"
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  8. #8
    QuizMaster QuizMaster is offline
    QuizMaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    8,228

    Re: The alienation of Irish citizenship in the GFA

    Quote Originally Posted by múscailte
    Quote Originally Posted by Aindriu
    Quote Originally Posted by mairteenpak
    Did the people of Ireland not endorse the GFA?.
    They most certainly did but that means nothing to those amadons in the RIRA. The word democracy isn't in their dictionary.
    I have no time for the RIRA, or indeed the CIRA who Cael's party would support. However, you seem to be forgetting that the British, the architects of the GFA, have never been interested in democracy in the case of Irish affairs. This is why the country was partitioned and why there has never been, and under the GFA will never be, a 32 County vote on the issue of Irish unity and sovereignty. Giving 1/5 of the population of this country a seemingly perpetual veto is not democratic.
    They could have voted "no". People in this country know very well how to vote "no".
    Not only did they vote "yes", but the vote was overwhelming. The only people voting "no" were some unionists. Other than that, the "yes" vote was about 95%.

    Anyone not respecting this clearly expressed will of the people is a traitor.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  9. #9
    múscailte múscailte is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,897

    Re: The alienation of Irish citizenship in the GFA

    [quote=A guy called Dave]
    Quote Originally Posted by "múscailte":s6qtpgdr
    I have no time for the RIRA, or indeed the CIRA who Cael's party would support. However, you seem to be forgetting that the British, the architects of the GFA, have never been interested in democracy in the case of Irish affairs. This is why the country was partitioned and why there has never been, and under the GFA will never be, a 32 County vote on the issue of Irish unity and sovereignty. Giving 1/5 of the population of this country a seemingly perpetual veto is not democratic.
    Am I vampire or something?
    Because when I read that, I'm put under the impression that due to being born Brit, I have a life expectancy of hundreds of years. It's quite some revelation to hear that Blair himself was an architect of the partition ( him being one of those spooky ageless 'Brits' you're talking about ).
    Of course it could be someone completely different, from a different era of time but that's just ridiculous

    More ageless Brit tales..."

    the Brits have never liked monkeys..they hung one, as a spy, during the Napoleonic war"

    "Of course there was trouble between Roma and United fans...what about the prior ruckus between Boudicea and the Roman army!? The Italians have obviously been biding their time"

    "Amy Winehouse taking heroin you say? No doubt the East India company is at the bottom of that one"[/quote:s6qtpgdr]
    Your point is what exactly? Were the British government not architects of the GFA? Did a British govt not impose the Govt of Ireland Act and thus partition upon the Irish people?
    Do please enlighten me as to any evidence that you have in regard to any British interest in respecting the truly democratic wishes of the Irish people as a whole. Or you could always just stick to the lame attempts at humour...that'd be much easier.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  10. #10
    múscailte múscailte is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,897

    Re: The alienation of Irish citizenship in the GFA

    Quote Originally Posted by QuizMaster
    Quote Originally Posted by múscailte
    Quote Originally Posted by Aindriu
    Quote Originally Posted by mairteenpak
    Did the people of Ireland not endorse the GFA?.
    They most certainly did but that means nothing to those amadons in the RIRA. The word democracy isn't in their dictionary.
    I have no time for the RIRA, or indeed the CIRA who Cael's party would support. However, you seem to be forgetting that the British, the architects of the GFA, have never been interested in democracy in the case of Irish affairs. This is why the country was partitioned and why there has never been, and under the GFA will never be, a 32 County vote on the issue of Irish unity and sovereignty. Giving 1/5 of the population of this country a seemingly perpetual veto is not democratic.
    They could have voted "no". People in this country know very well how to vote "no".
    Not only did they vote "yes", but the vote was overwhelming. The only people voting "no" were some unionists. Other than that, the "yes" vote was about 95%.

    Anyone not respecting this clearly expressed will of the people is a traitor.
    As always they were not given a democratic choice in regard to Irish unity. Your inflammatory language is a little silly.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Sign in to CommentRegister to Comment