The acceptance of the Unionist Veto by the provisionals

[Starkadder]

With regard to Article 3 and "both jurisdiction"...

One way the Unionist veto might be over-turned is if a referendum posing the question "Should Northern
Ireland remain with the UK or be united with the ROI?" were put to the entire UK population (NI,Scotland,
England,Wales).
If a majority voted for NI to join the Republic, Ulster Unionism would be finished as a
political ideology-the citizens of the country it was loyal to (the UK) would have voted for it to
leave the UK.
In the aftermath of this all-UK referendum,the Unionists would then either have to
try for an independent NI or else try to accommodate
themselves to life in a United Ireland.

[ulsterfan]

It seems to me that true Republicanism is in terminal decline because I can not see any party willing to pay the price of carrying this forward.
SF /IRA dragged Republicanism into the gutter when for political reasons they killed Irishmen ,women ,and children in the expectation that their political ambitions would be met.
It took them nearly 30 years to understand that the people of NI would not be bombed into a UI .
They are unfit to carry the proud tradition of being a republican ,not in the narrow Irish sense but in the values which are respected universally.
Who will carry the torch?

[stevey2005]

I wonder if the DUP will win that one from the UUP next time?

Lady Hermon got a tough fight the last time around in North Down.

Its hard to tell whether the DUP can take the seat. I think their looking to take Fermanagh and South Tyrone, and South Belfast back

[factual]

I wonder if the DUP will win that one from the UUP next time?

Lady Hermon got a tough fight the last time around in North Down.

Its hard to tell whether the DUP can take the seat. I think their looking to take Fermanagh and South Tyrone, and South Belfast back

I heard that they were wanting to make the most of a hung parliament by working out something to increase their number of MPs but while South Belfast (which is not SDLP) may be easy Michelle Gildernew will be hard to shift-she is popular.

[rockyracoon]

It seems to me that true Republicanism is in terminal decline because I can not see any party willing to pay the price of carrying this forward.
SF /IRA dragged Republicanism into the gutter when for political reasons they killed Irishmen ,women ,and children in the expectation that their political ambitions would be met.
It took them nearly 30 years to understand that the people of NI would not be bombed into a UI .
They are unfit to carry the proud tradition of being a republican ,not in the narrow Irish sense but in the values which are respected universally.
Who will carry the torch?

True Republicanism has won many battles because it would not and does not now accept injustice in any form. There are many battles left to fight, including the ones where certain persons and political bodies would re-write recent history for their own parochial, self-interested objectives. True Republicanism in its international context will continue to struggle for the rights of local communities and populaces to be heard above the centralising tendencies of vested economic and political bodies whose increasing aim, imo, is to comfort the comfortable at the price of democracy. Any lie, spin or distortion in order to "persuade" the masses is fair game for the vested interest grouping. Irish Republicanism in the north can easily counter the re-writing of history as the those who support Republicanism are only too well aware of the British/Unionist involvement in the conflict. It is very hard to make people disbelieve their own experiences. The job of work in the South will be much harder, but opportunities exist at the moment and no doubt given the utter level of cynicism practiced by the ruling parties further opportunities will present themselves for advancement of Republican aims. The torch of Repulicanism is still brightly lit and being handed onto to younger hands.

[ulsterfan]

rockyracoon
I support very much what you say.
The re-writing of history by any participant SF/IRA, British government Unionists and others must be challenged .
The truth is to be established.
That is the least we can offer to those on all sides who have suffered. A crime is a crime no matter how it is described.
I find ideals of Republicanism to be attractive but my main complaint is that various groups in Ireland have not protected the essence of this political system but with their actions have reduced it to the level of justifying crimes against their fellow countrymen.

[rockyracoon]

rockyracoon
I support very much what you say.
The re-writing of history by any participant SF/IRA, British government Unionists and others must be challenged .
The truth is to be established.
That is the least we can offer to those on all sides who have suffered. A crime is a crime no matter how it is described.
I find ideals of Republicanism to be attractive but my main complaint is that various groups in Ireland have not protected the essence of this political system but with their actions have reduced it to the level of justifying crimes against their fellow countrymen.

Seems like the acts of one side are criminal while the acts of the establishment are deemed "legitimate". As for the truth. History is written by the winner. Right now the British establisment and elements of the Irish government wish to portray themselves as winners, and will blithely ignore or distort the harm caused to one side in order to further their narrow self interests. Such distortions of the recent past, imo, may only leave a door open to further conflict by refusing to learn anything from the past. A fairly selfish attitude.

And then you come to the thorny issue of what the historical truth is. My personal experieces will differ greatly from someone east Antrim, and they will certainly differ from the perceptions of many in the south whose primary contact with the conflict is through RTE news and local media. In keeping with my Republican ideals, I will recognise the harm caused by some Republicans by I will not become blind to the underlying causes of the conflict nor to the ongoing work that needs to be done, not least the need to counter the re-writing of history to suit an elite economic-politcal dynasty. While some nationalists have begun to jump on board the one sided conflict theory , too many northern nationalists know the score to fall for this shallow ploy.

[Amach na Casca]

Sinn Feins signing up to the GFA, and subsequent joint administration within the British system has isolated the republican purists, theres no denying that.
It is, i believe a strategic decision to bide by time and hopefully achieve a United Ireland, when our numbers are greater 20 years or so down the line, slowly slowly catchy monkey if you like. Its been a success electorally, as SF are taking more and more seats in subsequent elections, and strenghtening their position. The majority of northern nationalists it would appear buy into it and thats significant.
Unionists are reasonably happy too, as a UI is out of reach (for the time being anyway).

Although i'd love nothing more than tearing down the border and having unity tomorrow, that was never on the cards. The statelet has had 80+ years of oxegen and the British and crucially the Irish Government has allowed it to grow and develop without any concerted effort to end its exisitence. The majority of people on this island want unity, but we'll never really know how much the Irish Govt is under the thumb of its British counterpart and didn't want to rock the boat for fear of offending our neighbours interests.

As much as i admire the republican purists, and theres many on this site who argue their points extremely articulately, nationally their numbers are too small to effect change and are up against the British and Irish state, plus practically all the political parties. Hopefully there will be some sort of SF-dissident agreement, or closer working relationship in the future. I do however admire the resolve, and salute the true patriotic sons of Eireann for their stance!

[Vinegarhill]

Recently on RTÉ radio they were discussing cross border trade and it was mentioned that the southern state has more trade with Norway than with its northern neighbour, that surely highlights the gulf that has come to pass since partition!

[stevey2005]

I wonder if the DUP will win that one from the UUP next time?

Lady Hermon got a tough fight the last time around in North Down.

Its hard to tell whether the DUP can take the seat. I think their looking to take Fermanagh and South Tyrone, and South Belfast back

I heard that they were wanting to make the most of a hung parliament by working out something to increase their number of MPs but while South Belfast (which is not SDLP) may be easy Michelle Gildernew will be hard to shift-she is popular.

If you look back, both the unionist combined votes in these westminister constituencies were higher than SF or the SDLP. A pact was suggested at the time with the DUP/UUP to ensure both seats stayed in unionist hands. UUP decided against this, and both hands were to nationalists/republicans and in both the DUP were ahead of the UUP!!

Gildernew is popular, but a unionist pact in the area would ensure a unionist MP.