The Marxist Analysis of the Troubles

[mmclo]

Mark Langhammer, Kate Hoey, Jeff Dudgeon and
some members of B&ICO like Brendan & Angela Clifford and Joe Keenan were in this group. Possibly Jack Lane and Manus O'Riordan were associated as well.

Really??

[pocleary]

The Marxist critique of the Troubles is not something to which I've paid a huge amount of attention, although I do find it fascinating, if not simply for the fact that it provides a somewhat alternative view of what is generally perceived to have been the root cause.



Are there any proponents of the Marxist analysis here and what do they believe are its merits? Or, on the other hand, what do its opponents believe to be its faults? What is your personal theory on the origin of the Troubles?

The Normans/English/British invaded and misruled IRELAND

[Catalpa]

Good Link here folks for those who want to follow up on Karl and Fred's analysis of events in Ireland in their lifetimes:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... t/ireland/

[Starkadder]

Mark Langhammer, Kate Hoey, Jeff Dudgeon and
some members of B&ICO like Brendan & Angela Clifford and Joe Keenan were in this group. Possibly Jack Lane and Manus O'Riordan were associated as well.

Really??

Yes. According to Indymedia B&ICO was the
....." intellectual substance behind the Campaign for Labour Representation which campaigned stridently for British Labour Party organisation in Northern Ireland on non-sectarian grounds."....

"The main activists, here apart from Brendan and Angela Clifford were David Morrison ( now active in anti-Iraq war blogging) ; David Gordon ( now an excellent investigative journalist with the Belfast Telegraph ; Jeff Dudgeon and Sean McGouran ( gay rights campaigners , Mark Langhammer now on the Irish Labour Party National Executive; Eamon O'Kane ,Boyd Black, Michael Robinson and Sam Gibson( left -wing trade union activists)."....

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/80451

Angela Clifford edited a book in 1986 called The Fulham manifesto : democratic rights for Northern Ireland, advocating the CLR's aims.

Now she writes anti-Zionist polemics and
endless attacks on the Irish Times.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Mark Langhammer, Kate Hoey, Jeff Dudgeon and
some members of B&ICO like Brendan & Angela Clifford and Joe Keenan were in this group. Possibly Jack Lane and Manus O'Riordan were associated as well.

Really??

Yes. According to Indymedia B&ICO was the
....." intellectual substance behind the Campaign for Labour Representation which campaigned stridently for British Labour Party organisation in Northern Ireland on non-sectarian grounds."....

"The main activists, here apart from Brendan and Angela Clifford were David Morrison ( now active in anti-Iraq war blogging) ; David Gordon ( now an excellent investigative journalist with the Belfast Telegraph ; Jeff Dudgeon and Sean McGouran ( gay rights campaigners , Mark Langhammer now on the Irish Labour Party National Executive; Eamon O'Kane ,Boyd Black, Michael Robinson and Sam Gibson( left -wing trade union activists)."....

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/80451

Angela Clifford edited a book in 1986 called The Fulham manifesto : democratic rights for Northern Ireland, advocating the CLR's aims.

Now she writes anti-Zionist polemics and
endless attacks on the Irish Times.

If I'm not mistaken Paul Bew was involved with B&ICO as well.

[Starkadder]

I think Bew was in the B&ICO front group called
the ‘Workers Association for a Democratic Settlement in Northern Ireland’.

The Irish Political Review is always giving out about him (jealousy, perhaps?).

Maybe some academic should write a book about B&ICO, CPI (M-L),
Revolutionary Struggle and all these other fringe Marxist groups.

[Jolly Red Giant]

I think Bew was in the B&ICO front group called
the ‘Workers Association for a Democratic Settlement in Northern Ireland’.

The Irish Political Review is always giving out about him (jealousy, perhaps?).

Maybe some academic should write a book about B&ICO, CPI (M-L),
Revolutionary Struggle and all these other fringe Marxist groups.

Absolutely scintillating reading I'm sure.

I particularly like the story about the CPI(M-L) who, after they had given up on students leading the revolution (following the end of the Vietnam War), decided they were going to build a peasant army and headed off down to Carlow or Kilkenny or somewhere like that and camped in a field. The following morning they knocked on a farmers door and said 'comrade peasant can we have some water'. When the farmer came back to the door with shotgun in hand they had a change of heart - headed back to Dublin and went to Trinity College.

[Starkadder]

Sounds like something out of a Frank Hall sketch....

There's a link to a discussion of the CPI (M-L) here:

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2007/0 ... nd-and-me/

[Starkadder]

I think Bew was in the B&ICO front group called
the ‘Workers Association for a Democratic Settlement in Northern Ireland’.

The Irish Political Review is always giving out about him (jealousy, perhaps?).

Maybe some academic should write a book about B&ICO, CPI (M-L),
Revolutionary Struggle and all these other fringe Marxist groups.

Absolutely scintillating reading I'm sure.

I particularly like the story about the CPI(M-L) who, after they had given up on students leading the revolution (following the end of the Vietnam War), decided they were going to build a peasant army and headed off down to Carlow or Kilkenny or somewhere like that and camped in a field. The following morning they knocked on a farmers door and said 'comrade peasant can we have some water'. When the farmer came back to the door with shotgun in hand they had a change of heart - headed back to Dublin and went to Trinity College.

The introduction to Paul Bew's 1987 book " Conflict and Conciliation in Ireland, 1890-1910: Parnellites and Radical Agrarians", thanks
Brendan Clifford for his help in drawing Bew's attention to the
"All-for-Ireland" League, so presumably they were still on
good terms when he wrote it.