IRA's psychological effect on unionists/loyalists

[Briongloid]

I recently read a piece by Myers in the independant wherein he claimed that the unarmed Tomas McSweeny deserved to be shot by the Black and Tans and that it wasan entirely justified murder.
Sickening.

It was Tomas McCurtain who as Lord Mayor of Cork was shot in front of his wife and children early one morning. To me that is what Poppy Day is about - commemorating those who shoot people dead, an elected Lord Mayor at that, in front of their family.

Terence McSweeny succeeded Tomas McCurtain as Lord Mayor and died on hunger strike after being arrested.

Personally I feel Kevin Myers has all the big persuasive words and facts but his to me his articles are never balanced and occasionally inaccurate, even an acknowledgment of the other side's reasons for doing things would help.

my mistake but you get what im saying.

Poppy day is just some English tradition that has nothing to do with us and i neither want or care to know the whys and wherefores of it.

[Henry Joy]

Are there versions of Poppy Day/Remembrance Day in other European countries that were under threat from or invaded bythe Nazis in WW2/'The Emergency'?

[Briongloid]

Are there versions of Poppy Day/Remembrance Day in other European countries that were under threat from or invaded bythe Nazis in WW2/'The Emergency'?

maybe you need to read up on your history.

Poppys have nothing to do with the WW" or the "nazis".

Poppys commemorate as far as i recall the battle of the somme in WW1 or possibly Verdun where the advancing English soldiers supposedy pciked bunchs of poppys that were growning profusley at the side of the road on their way into battle and certain death.

[Carson's Cat]

poppys commemorate as far as i recall the battle of the somme in WW1 or possibly Verdun where the advancing English soldiers supposedy pciked bunchs of poppys that were growning profusley at the side of the road on their way into battle and certain death.

Yes, poppies relate to WW1 and particularly those battles which made up the Battle of the Somme.

However, to claim that it was just 'English' soldiers involved shows the kind of blinkered view taken of WW1 by many Irish people. Leave aside the 36th Ulster Division (as you no doubt will) but there was also the 16th Irish Division, made up mainly of Catholics and Nationalists from both the north and south of Ireland (as it was then).

Mind you - if you'd prefer to ignore the slaughter of Irishmen in world war 1 then that's a matter for you. The fact that English soldiers may have picked poppies is obviously a good reason to reject it as a symbol of remembrance.

Of course it also must make nationalists/republicans feel sooo good thinking about us poor prods. Deliberately distorting history simply to suit one particular outlook on life and ignoring the rest may not entirely be the preserve of one group of people - however you're going to have to start doing your own coming to terms with reality - something ulster prods have actually gone a long way towards doing.

[Henry Joy]

Are there versions of Poppy Day/Remembrance Day in other European countries that were under threat from or invaded bythe Nazis in WW2/'The Emergency'?

maybe you need to read up on your history.

Poppys have nothing to do with the WW" or the "nazis".

Poppys commemorate as far as i recall the battle of the somme in WW1 or possibly Verdun where the advancing English soldiers supposedy pciked bunchs of poppys that were growning profusley at the side of the road on their way into battle and certain death.

See my topic on Insular Ireland.

[raff]

Indeed it is sickening the way people who advocate hatred and encourage murder (Mr Paisley take your share of the blame but don't say it out loud ) are now lauded by the Free State press, as has been said there is a concerted effort on behalf of the Unionists to have themselves portrayed as the victims in this whole sorry mess and it is being played to lovingly by the media and indeed PSF.

As has been said here, a fear of Nationalists has been bred into the Unionist populace as a whole. I know people brought up as various Protestant beliefs whose gut reaction to a mention of the RC church is that it is pure evil, even said by committed atheists !! It has been ingrained with in the culture to help the Unionist people convince themselves that they were right to brutally suppress the indigenous people of Ireland and they are right to try and maintain control as at the back of it all we are nothing but a bunch of unwashed Anti-Christ loving pack of murderers!

[Briongloid]

poppys commemorate as far as i recall the battle of the somme in WW1 or possibly Verdun where the advancing English soldiers supposedy pciked bunchs of poppys that were growning profusley at the side of the road on their way into battle and certain death.

Yes, poppies relate to WW1 and particularly those battles which made up the Battle of the Somme.

However, to claim that it was just 'English' soldiers involved shows the kind of blinkered view taken of WW1 by many Irish people. Leave aside the 36th Ulster Division (as you no doubt will) but there was also the 16th Irish Division, made up mainly of Catholics and Nationalists from both the north and south of Ireland (as it was then).

Mind you - if you'd prefer to ignore the slaughter of Irishmen in world war 1 then that's a matter for you. The fact that English soldiers may have picked poppies is obviously a good reason to reject it as a symbol of remembrance.

Of course it also must make nationalists/republicans feel sooo good thinking about us poor prods. Deliberately distorting history simply to suit one particular outlook on life and ignoring the rest may not entirely be the preserve of one group of people - however you're going to have to start doing your own coming to terms with reality - something ulster prods have actually gone a long way towards doing.

i think i'll leave the distortions of history up to you.

in my view any irishmen who served in a foreign army that was and is occupying by force part of the national territory are no better than traitors and should be excoriated as such.

the irishmen who died in english uniform in the world wars were traitors all in my view.

we have an army here that serves this country. was that not good enough for them?

the only honourable irish men who served in the english army were those like Cathal Brugha who left that army to join the irish army and lead the resistance to the english occupation at that time

in fairness without the training that the enbglish army provided to key leaders of the ira who were ex english army soldiers it's unlikey that the IRA would have been able to fight the english crown forces so effectively in the war of independance....

so thanks for that.

[Carson's Cat]

Errr.... which uniform were they supposed to wear in 1914?

[raff]

Mind you - if you'd prefer to ignore the slaughter of Irishmen in world war 1 then that's a matter for you. The fact that English soldiers may have picked poppies is obviously a good reason to reject it as a symbol of remembrance.

The poppy is a symbol of the British army, what fools were in it and what religion they were/are is inconsequential, each poppy worn represents the murder and pain inflicted not only upon the Irish but the Indian people, the Palestinian, the Iranian and Iraqi. To try and say it is an OK symbol as a few ( and I do not give a damn about how many) Irish men turned their backs on their country to serve its oppressor.

When will you people realise that we do not want nor appreciate the occupational forces of Britain in Ireland, no amount of PR spin nor PSF MLA's attending WWI or WWII memorials will change that.

[Briongloid]

Errr.... which uniform were they supposed to wear in 1914?

the irish volunteers were in existence then with a uniform. pledged to fight the UVF and defend home rule.

they had uniforms
they were the precursors to the ira