Spotlight: The role of the Irish state in the Troubles

[eoghanacht]

I am a bit sceptical about the whole "cross-border" aspect of the troubles that somehow people came in and killed other people then scarpered across the border where they lived with impunity. I am sure there were some killings carried out by individuals south of the border but that had more to do with the make-up of the murder gangs themselves. On a purely headcount basis more people were killed in north Belfast than anywhere else but I doubt that Garda/IRA collusion had anything to do with that. I also have no doubt that individuals within the Garda were sympathisers/supporters of the IRA but no more than there were RUC men who were sympathisers with UDA/UVF gangs. The notion that it was sanctioned at an official level in either jurisdiction is absurd and the stuff of conspiracy theorists.

The FRU.

[Global Justice]

The FRU.

they where all at it .....

14 Intelligence Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the MRF where also involved up to their necks in sh1t.

pat summed it up perfectly.

[daniels]

To date, the programme has presented allegations that a Garda collaborated in the murder of the RUC officers. These allegations may have evidence behind them.

The programme then moved onto Unionist politicial allegations regarding murders in the hundreds.

Zero evidence was oresented for these allegations. Jeffrey Donaldson repeated his allegation, and Danny Kennedy pointed out that the South Armagh IRA killed a lot of people. He made a dossier. Then he demanded an apology for Irish government collusion.

At what point are we to be presented with the evidence the Unionist politicians have, instead of just allegations?

Surely, if there are hundreds of suspected victims of IRA/Southern authority collusion, wecould have touched on some of them, aside from the two RUC officers, the murders of which the Irish government has already instituted an enquiry?

The problem with these Spotlight investigations is that their subjects are advertised in advance and the audience share is mostly dependent on which side is favourable to the claims and it ends up preaching mostly to the converted. This one is no exception.

[Aristodemus]

The FRU.

Again, I do not dispute that there were organs of the security forces who were rogue but the notion that this was sanctioned at political level is fanciful

[Paradosis]

Again, I do not dispute that there were organs of the security forces who were rogue but the notion that this was sanctioned at political level is fanciful

Its very obvious that towards the end of the conflict a decision was made very high up within the British state to allow the Loyalist volunteers to let rip; without that them places like Tyrone would not have gone on board the "peace process". In general though collusion and turning a blind eyes to the Loyalist guerrillas was much more of a British Army than an RUC thing- something Republicans like to ignore in their ethnic hatred.

[Aristodemus]

Its very obvious that towards the end of the conflict a decision was made very high up within the British state to allow the Loyalist volunteers to let rip; without that them places like Tyrone would not have gone on board the "peace process". In general though collusion and turning a blind eyes to the Loyalist guerrillas was much more of a British Army than an RUC thing- something Republicans like to ignore in their ethnic hatred.

I do not accept that. If it were true then the same arms of the state would not be locking loyalist terrorists up by the truck load at that time.

[SeamusNapoleon]

it was common knowledge to just about everyone that the Provos operated with impunity around the border.

I have a friend who often comes out with 'They said X gives you cancer...' or 'Sure, they always say things like that...'
The trouble is, when you ask her who they are, she will say she heard it on the radio or read it on ther internet.
Your common knowledge is more facile, being concerned with something much more serious.

Number of British army incursions into the 26 Counties:

1974 - 121
1975 - 68
1976 - 55*

Now, perhaps you would like to tell us how many of these illegal incursions were punished.
I'll give you a little lead - g'way and read Garrett Fitzgerald's biography about the arrest of a car full of heavily armed and blackened-faced soldiers in the twenty-six counties at a time when Irish citizens were being murdered along the border. Tell us what happened to them and what the reaction was in Britain to their arrest.



* Harnden, T., Bandit Country: The IRA & South Armagh (London, 1999), p.120

[Pat Mc Larnon]

The no show by Harnden at the tribunal is telling indeed. For all the bluff and bluster the Smithwick Tribunal was established on gossip and because of the stories of an acknowledged spoofer and copy from journalists. As Myers has admitted this on occasions was journalists reporting on another journalist's story.

It is safe to conclude he didn't fancy the cross examination that would have eroded this whole charade even further.

[Castle Ray]

I have a friend who often comes out with 'They said X gives you cancer...' or 'Sure, they always say things like that...'
The trouble is, when you ask her who they are, she will say she heard it on the radio or read it on ther internet.
Your common knowledge is more facile, being concerned with something much more serious.

Number of British army incursions into the 26 Counties:

1974 - 121
1975 - 68
1976 - 55*

Now, perhaps you would like to tell us how many of these illegal incursions were punished.
I'll give you a little lead - g'way and read Garrett Fitzgerald's biography about the arrest of a car full of heavily armed and blackened-faced soldiers in the twenty-six counties at a time when Irish citizens were being murdered along the border. Tell us what happened to them and what the reaction was in Britain to their arrest.



* Harnden, T., Bandit Country: The IRA & South Armagh (London, 1999), p.120

Details of Eire security force arrests of republican terrorists would be more relevant for you to provide. Detailing incursion by our security forces is irrelevant to the point being made.

[between the bridges]

I have a friend who often comes out with 'They said X gives you cancer...' or 'Sure, they always say things like that...'
The trouble is, when you ask her who they are, she will say she heard it on the radio or read it on ther internet.
Your common knowledge is more facile, being concerned with something much more serious.

Number of British army incursions into the 26 Counties:

1974 - 121
1975 - 68
1976 - 55*

Now, perhaps you would like to tell us how many of these illegal incursions were punished.
I'll give you a little lead - g'way and read Garrett Fitzgerald's biography about the arrest of a car full of heavily armed and blackened-faced soldiers in the twenty-six counties at a time when Irish citizens were being murdered along the border. Tell us what happened to them and what the reaction was in Britain to their arrest.



* Harnden, T., Bandit Country: The IRA & South Armagh (London, 1999), p.120

would this be the same Garrett Fitzgerald's who in his biography stated that Ireland was a sectarian state?