Peter Robinson at Mc Kenna Cup Final

[harry_w]

Meriwether,

Your remarks come across as seeking to cause enmity here. Please can I ask you to reconsider your choice of phrasing.

Several commentators here are members of the Orange Order. For them, it is a largely a social club and an important part of their lives.

In the past, there have been problems associated with the Orange Order. If you want to discuss them in the spirit of achieving reform and reconciliation, you will probably be listened to (a bit). If you discuss them in a hostile spirit, you will get the rest of us thinking about pots, kettles, beams and motes etc. There were problems and violence associated with all sides.

My children are growing up in Northern Ireland. I hope that it will become a place at peace with itself. Please could I ask you to think whether your choice of wordings might help that. My children have done you no wrong. Their ages are similar to those of Jason, Richard and Mark Quinn.

You're presenting the Orangeman's image of the OO as 'largely a social club', then compare your own children to the three Quinn boys who were burnt to death in mass disorder incited by that 'social club'.

That was done by the UVF, who you might recognise among bands that march with the Orange Order. They'd have marched together within hours of torching the Quinn's home. You'd have to have an appreciation of what the Orange Order is, besides a social club, to understand how that could happen.

I accept that the ethos of the Orange Order and the actions of some of its member can be divisive and that it needs to continue to move towards being purely a social, religious and cultural society.

To start getting back to the subject of the thread, do you agree that the ethos of the GAA can be divisive? Do you agree that "strengthening of the National Identity" might be, in the modern world, a divisive and inappropriate aim for a sports body?

The Association is a National Organisation which has as
its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity
in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and
promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes.

Put it this way - if I, an Englishman, declared that my basic aim in life was "strengthening the English National Identity", you would think I was a fascist or a lunatic. Would you not?

What do you mean by ethos? It's rather vague compared to your particular objection to the GAA's constitution. The GAA have changed that constitution removing the bar on Crown forces which unionists objected to.

What moves have the Orange Order made towards 'being purely a social, religious and cultural society', have they removed a single objectionable article from their rules and qualifications? They've been discussed extensively here, have you ever suggested they should reform any part of those rules and qualifications?

I did not say that the GAA or Irish sports were divisive and inappropriate, but rather to have as a basic aim of a sports organisation "the strengthening of the National Identity" is divisive and inappropriate.

Why? Because nationalism (in the general sense) is strong enough already. We should not encourage it further. Sports should build bridges, should be for everyone, not narrowly linked to one nationalistic tradition.

So be proud of the Gaelic sports. Tell us all how good they are, how much we would enjoy them. If they are good for you, we should be able to enjoy them even if we are not Irish.

If, however, the GAA constitution remains saying that they must, above all, remain linked to and in support of the Irish "National Identity", then my reaction is the same as it would be to a German who tried to argue that only Germans can fully appreciate the music of Bach.

Comparing 'strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland' to fascist aims (by dubious analogy), displaying a divisive and inappropriate aims, and an objectionable exclusive nationalism is rather different approach than that you take to the Orange Order: You present them as largely a social club (in it's own member terms), and continuing to move towards being purely a social, religious and cultural society.

If you're concerned about the children like Jason, Richard and Mark Quinn, try to think of the GAA as 'largely a social club' devoted to Gaelic sports (which it is) and get real about the Orange Order.