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  1. #11
    Schomberg Schomberg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Ned View Post
    Exactly. It's obviously related to William of Oranj. Schomberg seems to be saying that orange is on the tricolour because of the OO.
    Eh no. That's you putting words in my mouth.
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  2. #12
    Young Ned Young Ned is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schomberg View Post
    It's odd that you don't get the meaning of the word mere.
    Perhaps you'd like to explain. Seemed to me mere Protestants as you called them where the ones not in the OO.


    I thought it was until you started shifting the goalposts.
    Not sure what you mean there.


    huh? Orange was the colour choosen to represent people from my tradition and my identity - the Orange tradition, the Unionist tradition or whatever you want to call it. The OO is just one aspect of that. Orange wasn't chosen to represent all the Protestants of Ireland just because they were Protestants. It was chosen becuase that colour, like the green, repsents people from a cultural background that is orange i.e. connected to the Williamite tradition/the Unionist tradition/the Orange tradition. i.e. it doesnt included Green prods like Sean O'Casey. They're on your side of that flag.
    Exactly, it represents an identity, not an order. Glad we're in agreement.
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  3. #13
    Young Ned Young Ned is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schomberg View Post
    Eh no. That's you putting words in my mouth.
    Some people won't be happy til theres not an Orangeman left on the island. Time to rethink the tri colour.
    Ok then, why did you choose to use Orangeman to describe the people who identify with the orange portion of the tricolour, even though many Protestants don't identify as orangemen?
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  4. #14
    Young Ned Young Ned is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlorenceRey View Post
    Yeah thats what I meant, but originally blue was associated with Ireland and not green, didnt green become the colour of Ireland through the United Irishmen?
    I know what you mean, but I think it was before that that green was first used. I looked it up and saw that the first use of a green flag was in the mid 17th century during the Catholic confederacy.
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  5. #15
    Schomberg Schomberg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Ned View Post
    Exactly, it represents an identity, not an order. Glad we're in agreement.
    isn't that what I said at the start and you disagreed? You brought up the OO - I'm talking about a wider tradition that is older than the Orange Order that exists today. That's what the Orange in the flag represents.
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  6. #16
    Young Ned Young Ned is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schomberg View Post
    isn't that what I said at the start and you disagreed? You brought up the OO - I'm talking about a wider tradition that is older than the Orange Order that exists today. That's what the Orange in the flag represents.
    I asked a simple question and you started a fight. I found it odd that you equated the orange portion of the flag with 'orangemen' even though many Protestants who are not green certainly do not refer to themselves as orangemen. It certainly sounded like you were referring to the OO. If you'd like to clarify that, that's fine. If you'd like to continue with your faux offense, that's fine too.

    Mere protestants also threw me, coming from you.
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  7. #17
    Schomberg Schomberg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Ned View Post
    Ok then, why did you choose to use Orangeman to describe the people who identify with the orange portion of the tricolour, even though many Protestants don't identify as orangemen?
    here you go again.

    Orangemen are part of that Orange tradition. Hence er, you know, the Orange colour. They didn't take their colour from that flag, the flag took it's colour from the largest organisation on the island that represented the Orange tradition. Not all Protestants are part of that Orange tradition, hence they're not represented by the Orange bit. Protestant doesn't equal Orange. It should, but it unfortunately doesn't.
    Last edited by Schomberg; 5th October 2011 at 02:19 PM.
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  8. #18
    Schomberg Schomberg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Ned View Post
    I asked a simple question and you started a fight. I found it odd that you equated the orange portion of the flag with 'orangemen' even though many Protestants who are not green certainly do not refer to themselves as orangemen. It certainly sounded like you were referring to the OO. If you'd like to clarify that, that's fine. If you'd like to continue with your faux offense, that's fine too.

    Mere protestants also threw me, coming from you.
    How I'm starting a fight? Relax Ned. You seem to be confused. One second you're saying the Orange represents Protestants. The you're saying it represents the Orange tradition (correctly), then you're saying not all Protestants are part of the Orange tradition (correctly). So, forgive my fustration.

    any comment on the OP by the way?
    Last edited by Schomberg; 5th October 2011 at 02:21 PM.
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  9. #19
    Schomberg Schomberg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlorenceRey View Post
    The Jacobite cause and the Irish Republican cause differed radically both in form and content, obviously the Orange on the flag stands for the Williamite cause and not the Orange Order which was created to so division in the wake of the emergence of Irish Republicanism otherwise think about the absurdity of it, it would be like the Blosheviks putting the Imperial eagle on the Soviet flag.
    Huh? the Orange Order grew - entirely organically - from Orange societies that sprung up all over Ireland right after the Williamite wars in the end of the 17th century. The OO simply amalgamated them all. The Division was already there The OO defended our interests and helped preserve our cultural identity - thankfully. Yes, the Orange stands for the Williamite cause, of which the OO was the most visible and largest representation of. You can't separate the OO from that colour anymore than you can separate republicanism from green.
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  10. #20
    Young Ned Young Ned is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schomberg View Post
    How I'm starting a fight? Relax Ned. You seem to be confused. One second you're saying the Orange represents Protestants. The you're saying it represents the Orange tradition (correctly), then you're saying not all Protestants are part of the Orange tradition (correctly). So, forgive my fustration.

    any comment on the OP by the way?
    I'm not upset - it really does seem like you're jumping down my throat on this. Of course the color orange goes back to William of Oranj. I know any number of Protestants who would consider themselves culturally Protestant or whatever it is makes a 'good' Protestant, but who don't consider themselves orangemen. I thought this was a word reserved for people who belonged to the OO, which I am saying is definitely a much narrower band of people than the orange strip on the tricolour is meant to represent. Are you saying if a Protestant does not self-identify as an orangemen, that the tricolour does not represent them at all?

    As far as the OP just another stupid, pointless, sectarian attack.
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