NI society suffering 'breakdown'

[Squire Allworthy]

You'd have to say that the Labour government presided over this situation for 13 years and allowed it to develop as it has, it least the Tories are making an attempt to do something about it. They have done a fair amount of detailed research into the issue I believe.

You're right though, you have 2nd and 3rd generations now that haven't done a days work in their lives, true right across the UK of course, but even going with the stick approach and reforming the benefit system which is clearly necessary, who is going to employ these people.

Don't start me on New Labour! The opportunity they had and the money they wasted. What is there to show for all their expenditure?

Regarding benefits, I constantly come across people who should be supported, people who for one reason or an other are not able to get the support that they are entitled to. The elderly, the self employed, the not so clever, the homeless. The rules and complexity is staggering and the attitude within some of the departments is unhelpful and often incompetent. Many people simple do not get what should rightly be theirs because of errors. It is an utter mess. Needs to be simplified and people need to be given responsibility and made accountable for their work.

I am a strong believer in the philosophy that able bodied people who are unemployed should be expected to do some work for any benefits they receive. It could be building cycle routes, footpaths, planting forests, cleaning out rivers etc. Nothing for nothing.

With regards the unmarried mothers jumping to the head of the housing list. I question if a young girl should be on her own with her child. I think what is needed is hostel type accommodation. Something with a little bit of rigour is called for, for obviously the system is being abused. Why should a girl of 18 be given a flat and benefit and another same age, be out working and paying tax to help keep the other in her life of leisure?

The problem is the same in Liverpool, Bristol, Hull........

[Squire Allworthy]

I'd sort it out
Kids who were showing to be failing at around 14 or 15 would be sent to special schools with a much more outdoors and practical emphasis. They would board there for part of the week - just to give them a chance to be away from negative experiences at home and show them some other sides to life.
Lots of trips to the countryside, hiking and camping and learning map reading and outdoor skills, Ray Mears style.
These schools would be non-denominational.

I think that would do some of them the world of good. Many have fairly low self esteem.

For most you would have to start between the ages of 3-5 it is that bad. I have seen mothers heading off to school in their pyjamas, buying the children a packet of crisps. That is their breakfast! It makes me seethe. What chance do those children have?

[SinnShane]

How can such an educated, skilled body of people produce such a dreadul society? Is it the case that graduates just blow town to England, the south, elsewhere? It's really odd.

[TrueBlue84]

Don't start me on New Labour! The opportunity they had and the money they wasted. What is there to show for all their expenditure?

Regarding benefits, I constantly come across people who should be supported, people who for one reason or an other are not able to get the support that they are entitled to. The elderly, the self employed, the not so clever, the homeless. The rules and complexity is staggering and the attitude within some of the departments is unhelpful and often incompetent. Many people simple do not get what should rightly be theirs because of errors. It is an utter mess. Needs to be simplified and people need to be given responsibility and made accountable for their work.

I am a strong believer in the philosophy that able bodied people who are unemployed should be expected to do some work for any benefits they receive. It could be building cycle routes, footpaths, planting forests, cleaning out rivers etc. Nothing for nothing.

With regards the unmarried mothers jumping to the head of the housing list. I question if a young girl should be on her own with her child. I think what is needed is hostel type accommodation. Something with a little bit of rigour is called for, for obviously the system is being abused. Why should a girl of 18 be given a flat and benefit and another same age, be out working and paying tax to help keep the other in her life of leisure?

The problem is the same in Liverpool, Bristol, Hull........

I like the cut of your jib.

But I would cut all child benefits for ALL and the resulting money saved poored into an income tax reduction. If you cant afford to have a child - dont have one!

Benefits are too complicated

[damon]

I think that would do some of them the world of good. Many have fairly low self esteem.

I don't know why teenagers like the ones who get up to mischief and get involved in rioting aren't just sent away on trips more often. Pack them off down to the Republic for a couple of weeks in some trucks like these, to give them something to do and to see something ouside of their usual souroundings.
overland trucks - Google Search

How much can it cost? Not that much surely. If most nights are spent out camping and the days just doing free stuff like hiking the hills .... or cleaning out rivers and canals of rubbish.
Young offenders could be sent off to do a bit of useful work like that anyway. And see a bit of the country in the process.

If the answer is that it costs too much, then we're done for. I can't see why it's just not done.

[Cruimh]

I don't know why teenagers like the ones who get up to mischief and get involved in rioting aren't just sent away on trips more often. Pack them off down to the Republic for a couple of weeks in some trucks like these, to give them something to do and to see something ouside of their usual souroundings.
overland trucks - Google Search

How much can it cost? Not that much surely. If most nights are spent out camping and the days just doing free stuff like hiking the hills .... or cleaning out rivers and canals of rubbish.
Young offenders could be sent off to do a bit of useful work like that anyway. And see a bit of the country in the process.

If the answer is that it costs too much, then we're done for. I can't see why it's just not done.

Personally I'd bring back the stocks.

[TrueBlue84]

I don't know why teenagers like the ones who get up to mischief and get involved in rioting aren't just sent away on trips more often. Pack them off down to the Republic for a couple of weeks in some trucks like these, to give them something to do and to see something ouside of their usual souroundings.
overland trucks - Google Search

How much can it cost? Not that much surely. If most nights are spent out camping and the days just doing free stuff like hiking the hills .... or cleaning out rivers and canals of rubbish.
Young offenders could be sent off to do a bit of useful work like that anyway. And see a bit of the country in the process.

If the answer is that it costs too much, then we're done for. I can't see why it's just not done.

It's a slippery slope.

Why afford lay abouts the opportunities that many dream a lifetime for.

Person A leaves school at 16 and enters straight into a factory job which is hard work and low pay.

Person B leaves school at 16. Claims JSA for 5 years then gets given the opportunity to study for x courses and go on x trips to Barcelona, USA or Canada.

Why should person B be rewarded when person A has been more productive?

[damon]

And no doubt that's the dreary kind of argument you'd find at Stormont with people arguing against giving some money to fund such schemes. But a city like Derry just having one truck like that could have taken dozens of Bogside and Waterside youth away this summer. It doesn't have to be for crims particularly True Blue and Cruimh, just youth in general. The 1.1 million spent on the Ardoyne riots could have bought a lot of camping equipment and paid the salaries of several adventure youth workers to take the youngsters away during the summer.

I mean, wouldn't it have better if some of those bored youth who might get up to no good had done something like this instead this summer?

The Dingle Way is one of over 30 Irish long-distance walking trails. Situated in the south-west of the Ireland, the walk completes a circuit of the Dingle Peninsula, starting and finishing in Tralee, the capital of Kerry. The trail is 179km long and takes an adult who is reasonably fit an average of 8-9 days to walk.

Dingle Way | Homepage | The Dingle Way Walking Trail

And had that to brag about with their mates when they got home. That they had walked the whole way and camped every night?

[Cruimh]

Damon - rewarding bad behaviour is not a great idea IMO.

[Red Stag]

Game, set and match.

Nah, I just don't feel like letting you turn this into another unionist whining thread about "What the IRA did to us".