NI society suffering 'breakdown'

[Aindriu]

Interestingly enough, it's almost always the most deprived areas which are covered in flags and bunting, be it from one side or the other.

Because they tend to be more 'tribal' and zenaphobic in their outlook

Societal breakdown might be overblowing it, but there definitely is a real problem as regards educational attainment in many parts of NI.

As there are in many parts of the UK in general, particularly Scotland and north east & north west England.

[Cruimh]

I think it is a general malaise - our standard of lliving in Europe and the USA might have increased but the gap between haves and have nots has increased.

[picador]

Can anybody shed some light on the Water Works area of North Belfast(never heard of it),political affiliations,young or old population,size of population ect ect.

It's a public park.

Ward info and map here

[Portstewart]

There is an interesting site that gives relative levels of poverty by ward and sections of wards in NI.

NINIS | Area Profile Report

Some very interesting figures and worth comparing with the report if you are interested in such things.


[COLOR=Blue]In the Water Works ward in north Belfast nearly four in five births were to unmarried mothers, nearly half the adult population had never married and two-thirds of people had no or low qualifications. [/COLOR]

Two points here, firstly is the level of births out of marriage in poorer communities not also related to the benifits system and trying to obtain accommodation? Unmarried mothers are a higher housing priority and two people 'living separately' receive more benefit? Now the cost to the tax payer of two allegedly living separately is an extra rent and for society it is an apartment or house unoccupied. This is one of the reasons why people with a good grasp of the actuality in poorer areas need to structure the benefits system and not politicians with backgrounds in Oxbridge.

The second, is related to education. The level of illiteracy in some areas of NI is staggering. There were primary schools where no one passed the 11+ Some schools did not even put the pupils forward to do the exam!

Obviously many of the children are as intelligent as the population norm, so what must be happening is parents with low skills not being able to pass on any constructive skills to their children. I came across communities where it seemed to me that many could not even communicate verbally. Every other work a swear word, no real sentence structure and very hard to understand. Many of the children in these areas are doomed the day they are born. Nothing to do with the secondary school system, the problem is at home and the need is to supplement (or reduce) the role of the parents in their upbringing. It would need massive investment in preschool and primary education in such areas or the problem is inherited by the next generation.

In addition to this the loss of many of the large employers of the past has further reduced the structure of society and I feel that even the loss of local shops and the dominance of super markets adds to the decline of such areas.

You see similar in the UK and in almost any country. How to solve such problem is another matter. Would I employ a boy form Ardoyne, probably not as basic communication skills would be less than many others, so even if employment opportunities increase these areas fester. Truely difficult problem.

You'd have to say that the Labour government presided over this situation for 13 years and allowed it to develop as it has, it least the Tories are making an attempt to do something about it. They have done a fair amount of detailed research into the issue I believe.

You're right though, you have 2nd and 3rd generations now that haven't done a days work in their lives, true right across the UK of course, but even going with the stick approach and reforming the benefit system which is clearly necessary, who is going to employ these peope.

[st333ve]

Unionism is a cancer.

We produce the most highly educated people in the whole of the UK and possibly the ROI too.

We adopt economic policies designed for lower England which are a brick wall for investment.

Our people are told to be grateful for a subsidy in replace of an economy, about half the population of the north worship the border and British rule which ruins them.
It's shocking how many people believe in this mentality, even people in the south think that a benefits society is better in the north and that we're somehow lucky to have it.

Unionism is the same mentality as the bum on the dole, why work and create a life for yourself when the state can subsidy your inactivity?
Why have an economy and jobs when you can get an annual subsidy?
Same mentality.
Both mentalities teach people that they're better off with the handout.
They don't want to believe that effort and hard work and building your own life/economy is the way forward.
Someone else can pay for it and that makes you better off.

How much infastructure have we lost from partition, how much economic damage has been caused?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/br...-14684866.html

Atleast 90,000 jobs would be created by adopting a suitable corp tax rate alone, the north is rotting while it produces highly educated people who should be the backbone of a decent economy.

Where is the massive employment we deserve, the FDI, the factories and businesses that we can create on our own?

..but why create an economy, why change anything when we get a subsidy and we're 'better off in the uk'?

The mentality of a Unionist, the mentality of a bum.

[British Citizen]

YouTube - Fenians

With unionists learning their politics like this - no wonder why it's breaking down

I'd rather have a Unionist with extreme views like that than a Nationalist prepared to shoot people in the back of the head because of their religion.

What's worse - words or bullets??

Unionism is a cancer.

Unionism is the same mentality as the bum on the dole, why work and create a life for yourself when the state can subsidy your inactivity?

The mentality of a Unionist, the mentality of a bum.

Sorry to pull you up on your hate-filled, sectarian rant there Persian Prince but....

It's NATIONALISTS who are more likely to be lying on their arses all day drinking and watching Bargain Hunt:



And God only knows how you can afford to sit playing computer games 16 hours a day every day....

Talk Video Games - View Single Post - wheres all the games????

[firefly123]

I think it is a general malaise - our standard of lliving in Europe and the USA might have increased but the gap between haves and have nots has increased.

North or South of the border the same situation applies. A lot of the "have nots" have nothing because they refuse to get up off their ar2es and improve their lot.
I came from a poor area. I worked hard and moved out of that area. I had a supportive family (got a whack if I was out late or cheeky). A lot of my school mates went on to become druggies or worse because their parents did not give a sh1t and they were not motivated to work. A lot of the girls were pregnant before 20 as that was the way to get a flat/house.
There is only so much society can do to assist people if they have no motivation to assist themselves. This is not a uniquely North of Ireland condition it just has the added complication of sectarianism and a victim culture.

[Éireann go Brách]

Some the facts on the breakdown of the Irish verus Planter population is here
Of course the Planters are going to be dominant group,
seeing as they where the dominant social-econmic group for 300 years
as a result of Crown State terror,
Until their power was smashed in 1998. You can see in the graphs
The rise of the Irish as an econmic force in the pale.
If current trends contine econmic equality should come about within 10 years.

In 2008 comparable
figures were 75% of Protestants and 69%
of Roman Catholics economically active.

http://www.ofmdfmni.gov.uk/lfs_relig...8_26th_nov.pdf

This report presents information from the
2008 Labour Force Survey (LFS) on the
labour market characteristics of
Protestants and Roman Catholics in
Northern Ireland.

[Éireann go Brách]

[Aindriu]

I'd rather have a Unionist with extreme views like that than a Nationalist prepared to shoot people in the back of the head because of their religion.

I would rather have neither to be honest