Soldier survives booby-trap car bombing in Bangor

[Scipio]

And remember - go back a few years - at one point an alliance was forged between Charles II and the Irish Confederate catholics in which it was planned
that an Irish Army would invade England.

Historically Ireland posed a Major military threat. We are not talking of anything akin to China invading Tibet in 1950.

As part of a possible Royalist alliance. Remember that the armies of the Confederacy were often hopelessly divided between the native Gaels under Owen Roe O'Neill and the Old English, which is one of the principal reasons why they didn't press their advantage home, and later lost out to the Parliamentarians.

You claimed originally that Ireland was a "major and potent military threat", besides outside meddling in Irish affairs and the raising of Irish troops for a particular cause, I can see no real evidence to support that assertion.

[Cruimh]

As part of a possible Royalist alliance. Remember that the armies of the Confederacy were often hopelessly divided between the native Gaels under Owen Roe O'Neill and the Old English, which is one of the principal reasons why they didn't press their advantage home, and later lost out to the Parliamentarians.

You claimed originally that Ireland was a "major and potent military threat", besides outside meddling in Irish affairs and the raising of Irish troops for a particular cause, I can see no real evidence to support that assertion.

Right - so invading and colonising large chunks of England, Scotland and Wales didn't count. Alliances with France and Spain didn't count and planning to overthrow a Monarch was irrelevant.

As I said - it's the nationalist narrative to portray ireland as the weak and helpless virgin ravished by a wicked neighbour.

[Scipio]

Right - so invading and colonising large chunks of England, Scotland and Wales didn't count.

In the years 400-600 A.D., before the Anglo-Saxons had even gained control of England! By that measure, we can claim that the French had a moral right to invade and subjugate England in 1066 due to the invasion of Britain by the Angles, Saxons and Jutes in the years following the fall of Rome due to their "military" threat.

If you're claiming that the "Irish" were a threat then, the logical step is to conclude that the "Irish" constituted a nation at that point, instead of differing Gaelic tribes, something you vociferously deny (hitting home as it does at your ideology) time and again.

Which is it?

Alliances with France and Spain didn't count and planning to overthrow a Monarch was irrelevant.

Why were those alliances mooted? In an aim to free the island from English rule.

Ireland had no imperial ambitions beyond their own borders, and it's stretching the truth to ludcrious lengths to claim that the involvement of Irish troops in an English Royalist struggle constituted a native military threat to the neighbouring island. It didn't.

There were very many countries close to England which posed even bigger "threats" from a military and diplomatic point of view such as the Netherlands and Scotland, why didn't England feel the need to invade and settle them?

As I said - it's the nationalist narrative to portray ireland as the weak and helpless virgin ravished by a wicked neighbour.

Ireland was invaded, settled and denied her rights as a nation under English/British rule, just like any other country around the world suffered under colonial rule.

What you're implying is the same as saying the British had a right to subjugate India due to former imperial behaviour by Indian powers.

They didn't.

[Cruimh]

What you're implying is the same as saying the British had a right to subjugate India due to former imperial behaviour by Indian powers.

They didn't.

Jesus Scipio - I really have you rattled if this is the best you can manage ......

When was India a close neighbour and when did India Invade and Colonise parts of England, Scotland and Wales ? :mrgreen:

You can wriggle and squirm all you like - but I've made my case and shown that Ireland was a danger to it's larger neighbouring Island.

[Scipio]

Jesus Scipio - I really have you rattled if this is the best you can manage ......

When was India a close neighbour and when did India Invade and Colonise parts of England, Scotland and Wales ? :mrgreen:

You can wriggle and squirm all you like - but I've made my case and shown that Ireland was a danger to it's larger neighbouring Island.

You'll notice I said "is the same as saying".

You are trying to justify English rule of Ireland and the assertion that Ireland was a "potent military threat" due to the settling of Irish tribes in parts of Britain some 1,500 years ago, and 600 years before the first Cambro-Normans came to Ireland.

It's no different to saying that the Norman French had a right to invade England in 1066 due to the military threat posed by the Anglo-Saxons in the year 500.

If that's the best you can do, well, we can let the reading public decide which view is more in tune with reality.

[Cruimh]

It's not different to saying that the Norman French had a right to invade England in 1066 due to the military threat posed by the Anglo-Saxons in the year 500.

But the Normans did have every right ..... that is/was how the world worked.

[Fir Bolg]

As part of a possible Royalist alliance. Remember that the armies of the Confederacy were often hopelessly divided between the native Gaels under Owen Roe O'Neill and the Old English, which is one of the principal reasons why they didn't press their advantage home, and later lost out to the Parliamentarians.

You claimed originally that Ireland was a "major and potent military threat", besides outside meddling in Irish affairs and the raising of Irish troops for a particular cause, I can see no real evidence to support that assertion.

Even before this there was hostility between the "Old English" and the native gael. In petetions to the crown during the surrender and regrant policy and later the plantation policies the Catholic "old english" in trying to maintain their landholdings would constantly refer to themselves as the loyal colony of England in Ireland and played up their loyalty over the preceeding 3-400 years. They viewed themselves as English people in Ireland. This division between the both Catholic Irish and the Catholic Old English was what Geoffrey Keating was trying to overcome in writing Foras Feasa ar Eirinn.

[Young Ned]

When was India a close neighbour and when did India Invade and Colonise parts of England, Scotland and Wales ? :mrgreen:

And is it your assertion that this notion drove the adventures in Ireland?