Republican provocation against the Orange Order

[SevenStars]

Funny that a movement named for Carlos de Bourbon would be opposed to the Bourbons.

Why were a bunch of right-wing Catholics who fought with Franco opposed to an organisation for right-wing Catholics founded by someone who was sympathetic to Franco?

As for the first point you know exactly what I was getting at.

And even you must know that there is not just one "right wing" just as there isnt just one "left wing".

Also the "nationalist" side in the Spanish civil war was not homogenous. A lot of people were fighting against the Republic as opposed to fighting for Franco.

[picador]

As for the first point you know exactly what I was getting at.

And even you must know that there is not just one "right wing" just as there isnt just one "left wing".

Also the "nationalist" side in the Spanish civil war was not homogenous. A lot of people were fighting against the Republic as opposed to fighting for Franco.

Fair enough but what was their specific objection to Opus Dei? It was sympathetic to Franco but not the same.

[SevenStars]

Fair enough but what was their specific objection to Opus Dei? It was sympathetic to Franco but not the same.

Franco believed in centralization and suppression of "regional identity".

Franco believed in modernization when it came to industry, technology, etc.

Both of which Opus Dei supported.

Also a lot of Carlists are Traditional RCs while Opus Dei supported and supports the new mass, the personality cult around Pope John Paul II, etc.

[Ó Ghabhainn]

Erm, you do realise that Protestants can't be members of the Catholic Church either? Do you want the sued as well?

It's a church. Whether or not the 'Protestant' religion actually exists or not, people are known as Protestant because they "protest" against the Catholic Church, and therefore do not want to attend. So sayin the Catholic Church is sectarian on this matter is absolute nonsense.

It's a church of that faith. If you want to be part of the Catholic Church (or to "belong"), then become a Catholic.

The difference with the OO is that it is an organisation (not church) which is specifically anti-Catholic and specifically believes that Catholics do not have the right to "dictate" who does and does not make a considerable amount of racket or cause trouble around their homes. They believe that the state should have the say that they can march in these areas, which is in effect dictatorship. Obviously not all Orangemen hold these opinions, but the organisation itself is a problem.

[Almanac]

Franco believed in centralization and suppression of "regional identity".

The ideology of Basque 'nationalism' only came into existence in the mid twentieth century. The Basque people always considered themselves Spanish- back as far as St Ignatius. The situation is not really analogous to northern Ireland.

Franco believed in modernization when it came to industry, technology, etc.

Both of which Opus Dei supported.

All Catholics support modernisation, it's part of the stewardship of the earth.

Also a lot of Carlists are Traditional RCs while Opus Dei supported and supports the new mass, the personality cult around Pope John Paul II, etc.

In other words, Opus Dei are part of the mainstream Catholic Church.

(And what personality cult?)

[Chrisco]

It's a church. Whether or not the 'Protestant' religion actually exists or not, people are known as Protestant because they "protest" against the Catholic Church, and therefore do not want to attend. So sayin the Catholic Church is sectarian on this matter is absolute nonsense.

It's a church of that faith. If you want to be part of the Catholic Church (or to "belong"), then become a Catholic.

Yes, I do fully understand the irony in my post.

The difference with the OO is that it is an organisation (not church) which is specifically anti-Catholic and specifically believes that Catholics do not have the right to "dictate" who does and does not make a considerable amount of racket or cause trouble around their homes. They believe that the state should have the say that they can march in these areas, which is in effect dictatorship. Obviously not all Orangemen hold these opinions, but the organisation itself is a problem.

The Orange Order is a Protestant religious organization; and they are quite right that Catholics, or anyone, have no right to dictate who does and does not make a considerable racket outside their home. Breach of the peace issues are a different matter, and Orange marches in areas where they are not wanted fall within this category.

But the State does have the absolute right to say who can march in the street, and this has got nothing to do with 'dictatorship'

Nor, indeed, does it have much to do with my original post.

[picador]

Franco believed in centralization and suppression of "regional identity".

The antithesis of los fueros

Franco believed in modernization when it came to industry, technology, etc.

Both of which Opus Dei supported.

Also a lot of Carlists are Traditional RCs while Opus Dei supported and supports the new mass, the personality cult around Pope John Paul II, etc.

You speak of Carlists in the present tense. Are they really still around in political form? Are they followers of the Tridentine Rite?

[just4ever]

The Orange Order is a PROTESTANT organisation. Only PROTESTANTS can join it.

Opus Dei is a CATHOLIC organisation. Only CATHOLICS can join it.

Do you understand?

Opus Dei is a religious order in the Catholic Church. It is like the Jesuits of the Franciscans. The Orange Order is an organization. It does not have it's own clergy, is not a religious order and its membership is selected by application. It is a bigoted fraternity that expels it's members for attending Catholic ceremonies including baptismals and funerals.

Do YOU understand?

[Sync]

Opus Dei is a religious order. The Orange Order are a social club that's been around for ages. The BNP are a political party and subject to different rules. The 3 organisations are totally different, so trying to compare similarities is a waste of time. It's trying to compare apples to oranges to dogturds.

[MaoTseHelens]

How dare he play that bigotted nonsense near good Prod folk? [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmPbC1rYYOA"]YouTube- The Wolfe Tones - Protestant Men[/ame].