Northern magistrate - a refreshing view.

[Portstewart]

Well, I understand from a unionist perspective how unionists were ambivalent about going into government with SF. But I also think they dragged it out way too long. The IRA has been on cease fire since 1997. They decommissioned all weapons in 2005. From the nationalist side, we wonder why it took so long for loyalists to decommission. It just happened this year. If anything, loyalists should have done this well before the IRA - unionism always has the BA and PSNI to fall back on to protect its political ambitions even without the UDA/UVF/etc. When the IRA decommissioned, it made nationalists very vulnerable. We lost all protection in case we miscalculated.

I am glad of course that unionism is sharing power. We have structures in place now. But we need to work on grass roots issues and how people in the communities really feel about each other. I think we need to have discussions about compromise, like the ones I suggested concerning the OO and other loyalist paraders and the GAA. And as a nationalist I think we need to be advancing the discussion of the benefits of a UI.

You will surely understand unionists reservations about trusting people who had very recently been trying to murder them.

You advance them by all means, though I have to say the economic stuff SF comes out with, despite the way the western financial world has made a huge mess of things recently, is barely credible. I can't see many aspirational middle class Catholics buying that, and this will be the constituency you will need to win over. Problem for you is most of them completely abhor repbulicans. Im happy to argue these things out though in the democratic arena and may the best argument win.

The loyalists always said they would stop when the IRA did, and they have.

The conflict was essentially an offensive from the IRA so them laying down arms was more important in terms of finding a peaceful solution.

[tiocfaidh]

You will surely understand unionists reservations about trusting people who had very recently been trying to murder them.

You advance them by all means, though I have to say the economic stuff SF comes out with, despite the way the western financial world has made a huge mess of things recently, is barely credible. I can't see many aspirational middle class Catholics buying that, and this will be the constituency you will need to win over. Problem for you is most of them completely abhor repbulicans. Im happy to argue these things out though in the democratic arena and may the best argument win.

The loyalists always said they would stop when the IRA did, and they have.

The conflict was essentially an offensive from the IRA so them laying down arms was more important in terms of finding a peaceful solution.

To be continued. I'm calling it a night. Have a good weekend. If I see you at the GAA I'll buy you a pint.

[Portstewart]

To be continued. I'm calling it a night. Have a good weekend. If I see you at the GAA I'll buy you a pint.

As long as your man Bik McFarlane isn't singing his folk songs.

For now then.

[mutley]

You will surely understand unionists reservations about trusting people who had very recently been trying to murder them.

You advance them by all means, though I have to say the economic stuff SF comes out with, despite the way the western financial world has made a huge mess of things recently, is barely credible. I can't see many aspirational middle class Catholics buying that, and this will be the constituency you will need to win over. Problem for you is most of them completely abhor repbulicans. Im happy to argue these things out though in the democratic arena and may the best argument win.

The loyalists always said they would stop when the IRA did, and they have.

The conflict was essentially an offensive from the IRA so them laying down arms was more important in terms of finding a peaceful solution.

Wrong, I'm a middle class (lapsed) Catholic, and I don't abhor Republicans.


The South is a mess, but when I hear the DUP and the TUV spouting the same bigotry, If given the chance to vote, I would never vote to remain in the UK

This is reinforeced, by people like British Citizen, who want repartition with a 90 - 95% Protestant State, even though like yourself he would claim that a good percentage of the Catholic population would want to remain part of the UK. So it seems to me that this mythical population would be given their marching orders, or would be left in no uncertain terms about their place in a new repartitioned state.

That is the difference between Nationalism and Unionism, Nationalism wants to share, Unionism just wants to build a big wall around its territory.

I can understand this in a way. Unionism has what it wants, ie the Union is secure, so anything less than this is a loss, its hard to be optimistic when you feel you are going to loose what you have.
Nationalism does not have what it wants, but because it has hope and has something to aspire to it is much more optimistic.

[SevenStars]

The South is a mess, but when I hear the DUP and the TUV spouting the same bigotry, If given the chance to vote, I would never vote to remain in the UK
.

Occupied Wales and Cornwall are much more of a mess.

[Ifor Bach]

Occupied Wales and Cornwall are much more of a mess.

Occupied by whom?

The people who live there, I presume.

[Ifor Bach]

Concerning that, you may model your approach on that of PSF: Despite what you think of them, and I have considerable differences with them, Gerry Adams and company managed to convince the vast majority of militant republicanism to give up the gun and make compromises in return for the greater good. He has done this at considerable risk, but he knew that risk had to be taken in order for society to change.

Which some forty years ago he was urging them to take up.

Oh the Grand Old Duke of York
He had ten thousand men
He marched them up to the top of the hill
And he marched them down again

[Ifor Bach]

(1) The PIRA war did not materialise out of a vacuum. Nationalists were pushed into rebellion. Don't burn our streets, don't gun down civil rights demonstrators, etc., and PIRA never develops into anything close to what it did.

Nationalists weren't 'pushed into rebellion'. Physical force republicans were never interested in civil rights. They wanted a 'war'.

(2) In any case, that is the past. There were atrocities on both sides. We like to think we have moved beyond that. Mainstream nationalism clearly has. We are waiting for unionism to do the same.

I'm glad mainstream Republicanism has moved on from 'atrocities'. Mainstream Unionism, however, doesn't have to 'move on' from this position, as its leadership were never responsible for any atrocities.

[SevenStars]

Nationalists weren't 'pushed into rebellion'. Physical force republicans were never interested in civil rights. They wanted a 'war'.

I'm glad mainstream Republicanism has moved on from 'atrocities'. Mainstream Unionism, however, doesn't have to 'move on' from this position, as its leadership were never responsible for any atrocities.

The Republican movement had been slowly re-building during the 1960s after the fiasco of the border campaign and the majiority of it were not interested in a "war", it was as small as it is today anyway. The Provisionals' campaign was born out of the events of 1969.

What effect did the speeches of Ian Paisley for instance have on the events of 1969?

[SevenStars]

I can understand this in a way. Unionism has what it wants, ie the Union is secure, so anything less than this is a loss, its hard to be optimistic when you feel you are going to loose what you have.
Nationalism does not have what it wants, but because it has hope and has something to aspire to it is much more optimistic.

Ulster protestant culture has been distorted by partition and by its cutting itself of from the culture of the rest of the country.