Kick the Pope?

[Schomberg]

I wonder if anyone can confirm who is allowed into the OO and who isn't.

a protestant. and if you're an ex rc (or whatever) then you'd have to show you have been a member of a protestant church for a certain length of time and show you are active in your church. after that a lodge will meet to talk with you and put your membership to a vote.

hence the wiki reference:
"No person who at any time has been a Roman Catholic … shall be admitted into the Institution, [COLOR="Red"]except after permission given by a vote of seventy five per cent of the members present founded on testimonials of good character[/COLOR]

[meriwether]

This alone does not make it bigotted.

I'm anti-catholic myself, and I'm pretty sure I'm only a bigot to those who find it convenient for their arguments.

Depends on how the anti-Catholicism manifests itself.

I would helpfully suggest that allowing UDA and UVF bands to march with them is up there.

[Rossa]

Are people suggesting the OO is sectarian because it is a Protestant organisation or because it's a Protestant organisation that excludes non Protestants?

The fact that it's a protestant organisation for protestant people is not the issue. Even the fact that members of paramilitaries are members isn't the issue from where I'm coming. It's the anti-catholic/nationalist/republican tensions the order has been generating that is the issue. I'm no supporter of the catholic church but I'll not ignore sectarian bigotry.

I will say this though, Jackie McDonald is a UDA member and Orangeman should be commended for his positive approach in trying to reconcile the communities and moving loyalism on.

[Toland]

a protestant. and if you're an ex rc (or whatever) then you'd have to show you have been a member of a protestant church for a certain length of time and show you are active in your church. after that a lodge will meet to talk with you and put your membership to a vote.

hence the wiki reference:
"No person who at any time has been a Roman Catholic … shall be admitted into the Institution, [COLOR="Red"]except after permission given by a vote of seventy five per cent of the members present founded on testimonials of good character[/COLOR]

Question answered. Thank you.

Do you feel this special treatment of ex-catholics is warranted?

[Toland]

Depends on how the anti-Catholicism manifests itself.

I would helpfully suggest that allowing UDA and UVF bands to march with them is up there.

What's wrong with the UDA and UVF isn't anti-catholicism either. What makes them bigotted is the consequences they draw from their opposition to catholicism, and perhaps their reasons for being anti-catholic. Their obvious belief that protestantism is any better than catholicism is just silly in the 21st Century.

[British Citizen]

Guys, we've went a bit off-tangent since I was last online.

My point was not that the GAA is sectarian or as sectarian as the OO (even though I believe it is sectarian-by-default because of it's pro-Republican rules and it's membership enforces de facto anti-protestantism in Northern Ireland).

My point is the GAA's links to the IRA and INLA are exactly the same as the links between the OO and UDA/UVF that nationalists constantly complain about.

[meriwether]

Guys, we've went a bit off-tangent since I was last online.

My point was not that the GAA is sectarian or as sectarian as the OO (even though I believe it is sectarian-by-default because of it's pro-Republican rules and it's membership enforces de facto anti-protestantism in Northern Ireland).

My point is the GAA's links to the IRA and INLA are exactly the same as the links between the OO and UDA/UVF that nationalists constantly complain about.

And your point is still wrong, owing to the word 'exactly'.

For instance, you state that the GAA is 'defacto anti-Protestant'.
Thats your assumption, based on your perception that you cannot be Republican, and Protestant. That is clearly incorrect. Jack Boothman, President in the 90's, was a Protestant. Your caveat about Northern Protestantism is irrelevent. It is, or it isn't, and it isn't anti-Protestant, de-facto, explicit, implict, or otherwise.

The OO is explicity anti-Catholic. It's in black and white.

The GAA are a sporting organisation.
The GAA is no threat to Unionists, or Protestants, in any way, shape of form. They play their football and hurling in pitches. The most inconvenience anyone can get from this is parking restrictions.

On the other hand, the OO is a political organisation, that has used widespread civil disorder to achieve its aims.

The GAA does not bring 100k+ onto the streets in political demonstrations every year, with a menacing undercurrent of violence from its UVF/UDA followers at the same time.

At this stage, I have pointed out the difference between a sporting organisation (such as GAA or IFA) and an organisation such as the OO, at least ten times.

This menacing undecurrent of violence is well founded, owing to the fact that UVF and UDA colour parties march with the OO, Billy Wright and Adair have been feted at OO protests at Drumcree, OO supporters and mambers engaged in widespread civil disorder in 1996, blocking streets and roads and burning property as well as expelling people from their homes, and their supporters have burnt people to death, executed taxi drivers, adn burnt churches in order to force the march down Garvaghy road.

[eoghanacht]

Your culture? No its mine as well - my kids have Irish names and I have an Irish passport . I'm as Irish as you. However, there is no getting away from the facts - most of the GAA clubs in Tyrone ,at least, are named after republican or nationalist heroes O'donovan Rossa, Pearse, Owen Roe etc These are political figures not sporting. Tom Clarke as well. It would be like the local soccer team being called Dungannon Carsons (same historical period, same significance for part of the community). It's not though is it?
I'm appalled by sectarianism and bigotry on both sides of the divide so please don't mix me up with any loyalists. I just wish that every now and then that nationalists would admit to their own sectarianism.

I have stated on numerous occasions i'm not sectarian, i'm at best a lapsed catholic who has gone out of his way to ensure my son is brought up free of religion until he can decide for himself. I have no don't you are as Irish as i am nor would i dare consider you, any less Irish simply by what church you attend, the 26 counties has had numerous high profile protestant leaders. N.I can't make that same claim though.

All the characters you named above were integral to the setting up of this 'republic' for better or worse.

I don't see what the problem is in naming sporting teams after leader's who played a part in founding the state, nor would i have a problem with a club being named after Carson if they so wished.

[eoghanacht]

Guys, we've went a bit off-tangent since I was last online.

My point was not that the GAA is sectarian or as sectarian as the OO (even though I believe it is sectarian-by-default because of it's pro-Republican rules and it's membership enforces de facto anti-protestantism in Northern Ireland).

My point is the GAA's links to the IRA and INLA are exactly the same as the links between the OO and UDA/UVF that nationalists constantly complain about.

In fairness BC, it was you who dragged this off on a tanget 20 pages ago afterall as it's been popinted out before this is about KTP bands

[caulfield]

I have stated on numerous occasions i'm not sectarian, i'm at best a lapsed catholic who has gone out of his way to ensure my son is brought up free of religion until he can decide for himself. I have no don't you are as Irish as i am nor would i dare consider you, any less Irish simply by what church you attend, the 26 counties has had numerous high profile protestant leaders. N.I can't make that same claim though.

All the characters you named above were integral to the setting up of this 'republic' for better or worse.

I don't see what the problem is in naming sporting teams after leader's who played a part in founding the state, nor would i have a problem with a club being named after Carson if they so wished.

You see I would have a problem naming teams after folk heroes /political figures. I just don't see the relevance. It would make the GAA a much more attractive propsition to me as an individual, if it was just about sport. Of course all the teams I've mentioned are in Northern Ireland not the Republic!
For the record I avoid churches like the plague!