The IRA/Irish state War against the Loyalist working class

[MacCoise]

Someone to keep Factual company on my ignore list.

Agreed amazing how all these British based "socialist" parties supports Britain , no?

[Ballindrait]

Someone to keep Factual company on my ignore list.

Agreed amazing how all these British based "socialist" parties supports Britain , no?

More amazing how national socialists like SF seem to think socialists should base their world view on the labeling of countries as "goodies" and badies" - sticking to the same principles that lead them to line up behind that great Irish Patriot William Martin Murphy against Connolly, Larkin and the workers of Dublin in 1913.

[terry666]

Someone to keep Factual company on my ignore list.

Agreed amazing how all these British based "socialist" parties supports Britain , no?

Even more amazing that some socialists expected the Protestant working class to meekly enter into a union with backward clerical-fascist state, which sought to deny them basic human rights like birthcontrol and dozens of other things people in Britain at the time took for granted.

[MarkyMark]

Even more amazing that some socialists expected the Protestant working class to meekly enter into a union with backward clerical-fascist state, which sought to deny them basic human rights like birthcontrol and dozens of other things people in Britain at the time took for granted.

Fascist state? please explain.......

Birthcontrol is a human right is it? thats amazing, so one of the rights of a human is to be able to kill an unborn human? WOW! I realise you are not only speaking of abortion so please dont start listing off other forms of birth control...

Also what other "dozens'' of things did the free State seek to deny them, I'd really love to know.... I'd also love to know if you have any proof of this, or are you just rambling on aimlessly as per usual

[JCSkinner]

Someone to keep Factual company on my ignore list.

Agreed amazing how all these British based "socialist" parties supports Britain , no?

Even more amazing that some socialists expected the Protestant working class to meekly enter into a union with backward clerical-fascist state, which sought to deny them basic human rights like birthcontrol and dozens of other things people in Britain at the time took for granted.

Go on, Tel. I've got the fiddle out. Sing us that oul song about how the Loyalists are the most oppressed people on Earth and dirty dastardly Dublin kept them down in the gutter, with their shipyard jobs, choice of housing, gerrymandered representatives and their own paramilitary police force to murder the neighbours with.

[st333ve]

Unionists still today seek to opress.
They wil fight endlessly to prevent the irish language being promoted in the north, do they ever ask themselves why the irish language has practically died out in ireland?

No, im sure theyve got some excuse that would blame the irish, like calling the systematic starvation of the irish people a "famine" when there was never a shortage of food in such a lushous island.

There is no point arguing with unionists/loyalists they have been taught a completely warped sence of history throughout their lives and their politicians make it very clear that denial is a completely acceptable answer to any uncomfortable question, and that anything can be blamed on the IRA with a few spin tactics.

These two factors, denial and the IRA are what makes up almost any unionist argument.

Instead of trying to demonise the irish state, why dont you drive by the docks in belfast and see how many working class people have got jobs from the building of the massive titanic quarter (dublin firm) or if you ever walk into a supermacs or centra shop remember that those working class people have been provided jobs from the "irish state", why dont you look at the money the irish state is giving to the north and recognise the jobs its creating instead of coming up with your warped brainwashed anti-irish muck, not to mention the western roads the irish state will create to make this part of ni more reachable for trade.

Unionism is a completely self destructing objective, when corporation tax goes up in a year or two watch the economy of the north sink even further and watch how britain doesnt care, remember that next time you wave their union jack and try to demonise nationalists who dont want to be controlled from overseas nor worship opressive imperialism.

[Corcaigh33]

While agreeing with St333ve in the main there is one point which needs to be made I feel......

Unionists/Loyalists DO need to be argued/ debated/engaged with.

And I don't mean the trolling drivel sometimes found on P.ie.
I mean actual unionists. They need to have their world view challenged, corrected and understood. In exactly the same way as republicans should be prepared to be challenged, corrected and understood. That's the key to the last door in the struggle for unity lads, we won't get there without bringing the unionists along with us.

Have to say I love the "backward" comment. I could not care what religion a person is and have repeatedly said it here but you really should listen to a free-presbyterian some time.

[terry666]

Someone to keep Factual company on my ignore list.

Agreed amazing how all these British based "socialist" parties supports Britain , no?

Even more amazing that some socialists expected the Protestant working class to meekly enter into a union with backward clerical-fascist state, which sought to deny them basic human rights like birthcontrol and dozens of other things people in Britain at the time took for granted.

Go on, Tel. I've got the fiddle out. Sing us that oul song about how the Loyalists are the most oppressed people on Earth and dirty dastardly Dublin kept them down in the gutter, with their shipyard jobs, choice of housing, gerrymandered representatives and their own paramilitary police force to murder the neighbours with.

THE loyalist working class also lived in rented terraced housing and were denied a vote,just like Catholics.

While they had better job opportunites then Catholics, attempting to claim and building a movement which claims all Catholics were oppressed,while the Protestants had it easy as mainstream Irish Republicanism/Nationalism has historically, is false and has led to the divisive situation today.

Saying that the Irish Repubublic was a clerical-fascist state, which did indeed deny basic human rights taken for granted in other countries.

So the RUC were the Police force of the Protestant working class ?

This is why Republicanism can never be trusted, underneath its a bourgeois nationalist movement which cow-tows to the Irish state against the ordinary Protestant people, whom it still views as planters and imperialists, 400 years on.

This is why historically republicans took the side of the Irish state/boss class against more socialist minded unionists and never attempted to build bridges.


As for gerrymandering, todays Irish republic is possibly western Europes most corrupt political state where people buy votes and seats and have them handed down in the family. Why dont republicans complain about that ?

[terry666]

Unionists still today seek to opress.
They wil fight endlessly to prevent the irish language being promoted in the north, do they ever ask themselves why the irish language has practically died out in ireland?

No, im sure theyve got some excuse that would blame the irish, like calling the systematic starvation of the irish people a "famine" when there was never a shortage of food in such a lushous island.

There is no point arguing with unionists/loyalists they have been taught a completely warped sence of history throughout their lives and their politicians make it very clear that denial is a completely acceptable answer to any uncomfortable question, and that anything can be blamed on the IRA with a few spin tactics.

These two factors, denial and the IRA are what makes up almost any unionist argument.

Instead of trying to demonise the irish state, why dont you drive by the docks in belfast and see how many working class people have got jobs from the building of the massive titanic quarter (dublin firm) or if you ever walk into a supermacs or centra shop remember that those working class people have been provided jobs from the "irish state", why dont you look at the money the irish state is giving to the north and recognise the jobs its creating instead of coming up with your warped brainwashed anti-irish muck, not to mention the western roads the irish state will create to make this part of ni more reachable for trade.

Unionism is a completely self destructing objective, when corporation tax goes up in a year or two watch the economy of the north sink even further and watch how britain doesnt care, remember that next time you wave their union jack and try to demonise nationalists who dont want to be controlled from overseas nor worship opressive imperialism.

Republicans also seek to deny funding for Ullans....its it for tat.

So Steve we should celebrate the Republics boss class and supermacs, the Republics versionof macDonalds,the fact corpotations in the Republic dont pay proper tax, and be grateful an Irish bilding firm is being funded by the British tax payer to build in Belfast


I think I prerfer a free at use healthservice, decent roads, Police and local govt ombudsman I can complain to as well as a local govt standards board, cheaper road tax, a choice of non sectarian schools, decent roads, a half decent legal aid system , all the same Steve..

If the Republic is so great Steve why dont Northern Republicans go and live their and avail of its marvellous healthcare and infrastructure as well as advanced social care system ?

[st333ve]

"So Steve we should celebrate the Republics boss class and supermacs, the Republics versionof macDonalds,the fact corpotations in the Republic dont pay proper tax, and be grateful an Irish bilding firm is being funded by the British tax payer to build in Belfast "


They dont pay proper corporation tax?
They pay 12.5% which is a lot more than most european companies which pay 0% (btw this is a good thing)
There is no need for the 22% and 28% corporation tax in the north it is driving companies out.
And dont try and give britain the credit for the investment coming from the republic it was inevitable that the economic boom would spill over into the north.

I used supermacs and centra as an example because it is an example of a typical working class job, there will be jobs for the upper class also like selling yachts and penthouse apartments in the new titanic quarter whats your point?
Is all this investment bad because it comes from the republic?
Is living off the taxes from england and their atrocious medievil healthcare service a good reason to stay in the uk?
Im not a begger, i see where that things are going down im not in denial and i cannot see the economy in the north ever becoming succesful while it is restricted over taxed and handcuffed by british rule.