The IRA/Irish state War against the Loyalist working class

[Slartibuckfast]

I think all Christian denominations are built on sand. The Bible is not a history it's a collection of writings by different people over a period of thousands of years. The life of Jesus and the early church is poorly documented. Some people argue Jesus never existed in the first place! I wouldn't put my trust in any of the churches there's too many controversies to put trust in any of them. You don't need to belong to any church these days just be one of life's good guys and forget sectarian labels.

Lb

Jesus is one of the best documented figures of the first centurty. He is referred to by the Roman historian Pliny and the Jewish historian Josephus. He existed alright and has influenced the world more than any figure. He was either 1) God 2) mad or 3) bad.

He claimed to be God so if his claim is true then we should follow him.

If he was not God and yet he claimed to be then he was either insane or lying.

But does the Jesus of the Gospels strike you as a madman or a liar?

Jesus is mentioned in The Koran and there are references to him being in India and other places you would not expect him to turn up in (including England!). Let's also remember that Jesus was a very common name so it would be very easy to confuse things. The Gospels are confusing and anyone who says they are not are kidding themselves. Jesus is praying in the garden to God about going to the cross. Why is he praying to himself if he is God? If there is a Holy Trinity why isn't it mentioned in the Old Testament?

The Koran says he wasn't even crucified and the Indian account says he went to live in Kashmir instead of ascending to heaven! The Gnostic accounts also give different versions. If you look at early Christian history there were many versions of Christianity so putting your trust in something clouded with so much uncertainty is a gamble. There's an ethical and spiritual dimension to all religions but you can develop that side of your life on your own without signing up to organised religion. Putting your trust in Christian churches with the dodgy track record they have is like employing cowboy builders to work on your house.

Lb

A thing I've only begun to hear about recently is the similarities to the Jesus story and that of pagan myths which were around before the time of Jesus and would have been known to the writers of the Gospels. The son of a god born of a virgin; three wise men knowing of his arrival; his miracles of healing; his death to save mankind, and subsequent resurrection from the dead. Fascinating stuff, and definitely an eye-opener.

It was reflecting on these myths of dying and reviving gods (Balder, Adonis, Bacchus) that helped C S Lewis convert to Christianity. This idea of a god sacrificing to himself to himself occurs frequently in pagan stories across the world, suggesting that something deep from within the universal consciousness of mankind was expressing itself. The pagan myths are God expressing himself through the minds of poets, using the images he found there, while Christianity is the expression of this same truth in real events. It was a hardcore atheist that made Lewis realise this. He passed a throwaway remark to Lewis along the lines of, "The strange thing with these myths is that with Christianity it's as if this really happened."

The other reason could simply be that they had found their way into the conciousness of mankind after the first myth became popular, with the story spreading to different cultures and the Gospel writers simply carrying on a tradition of fitting the core elements into their time and place. Why is the Jesus story true in peoples' minds, in that it is supposed that it really happened, with the rest being simply myth? What is so special about it? There is no proof other than the seemingly divinely inspired Gospels, which are contradictory of each other leading one to speculate that they couldn't indeed be that divinely inspired.

[Coleman]

[The other reason could simply be that they had found their way into the conciousness of mankind after the first myth became popular, with the story spreading to different cultures and the Gospel writers simply carrying on a tradition of fitting the core elements into their time and place. Why is the Jesus story true in peoples' minds, in that it is supposed that it really happened, with the rest being simply myth? What is so special about it? There is no proof other than the seemingly divinely inspired Gospels, which are contradictory of each other leading one to speculate that they couldn't indeed be that divinely inspired.

It really happened alright. Christ is the best documented figure of the first century AD. The "contradictions" in the Gospels occur because different writers are narrating the same event- just as eyewitnesses to an accident give differing accounts, or the way photographs give different perspectives depending on the angle. The Gospels, although historical, were not written for a historical purpose: they are kergmatic, intended to introduce the reader to the person of Christ. The Bible is the world's best-selling book and no person has influenced history as much as Christ. The whole of western civilisation is built on Christianity. China is currently under an ideological system which was invented in repudiation of Christianity. Even Islam is greatly influenced by it, though it deformed and truncated it.

Only in Judeo-Christianity did we originally find monotheism; the ancients counted their gods often in their thousands, just as India currently does. The other great world 'religion'- Buddhism is more an agnostic system of self-development.

[Slartibuckfast]

[The other reason could simply be that they had found their way into the conciousness of mankind after the first myth became popular, with the story spreading to different cultures and the Gospel writers simply carrying on a tradition of fitting the core elements into their time and place. Why is the Jesus story true in peoples' minds, in that it is supposed that it really happened, with the rest being simply myth? What is so special about it? There is no proof other than the seemingly divinely inspired Gospels, which are contradictory of each other leading one to speculate that they couldn't indeed be that divinely inspired.

It really happened alright. Christ is the best documented figure of the first century AD. The "contradictions" in the Gospels occur because different writers are narrating the same event- just as eyewitnesses to an accident give differing accounts, or the way photographs give different perspectives depending on the angle. The Gospels, although historical, were not written for a historical purpose: they are kergmatic, intended to introduce the reader to the person of Christ. The Bible is the world's best-selling book and no person has influenced history as much as Christ. The whole of western civilisation is built on Christianity. China is currently under an ideological system which was invented in repudiation of Christianity. Even Islam is greatly influenced by it, though it deformed and truncated it.

Only in Judeo-Christianity did we originally find monotheism; the ancients counted their gods often in their thousands, just as India currently does. The other great world 'religion'- Buddhism is more an agnostic system of self-development.

The contradictions are sometimes too glaring to be put down to simply being different interpretations of what are purported to be actual facts. For instance did Jesus enter Jerusalem at the start of his messianic mission or at the end of it?

Jesus more documented that Nero or Claudius? Apart from the (unreliable as fact) Gospels, and a fleeting reference to a 'Jesus' (a very popular name of the time in ancient Palestine) by Josephus* where? As far I know, and I may be wrong, the (officially accepted) Gospels even are wrong as to the Roman governors and Jewish kings cited in them as ruling when Jesus was said to have lived. And whether there was a messianic type figure known as Jesus who had a following in ancient Palestine, it doesn't as the Gospel truth (!) follow that he was the figure of the Christ as told of by the various Gospel writers.

The influence of so-called Christianity has no bearing whatsoever on whether the Jesus of the Gospels existed, except maybe as an argument as to his non-existence because, what movement influenced by someone as all-powerfully good and enlightened as that could throw up such evil and ignorance into the world?

*In the genuine passage, not the forged one

[Almanac]

Some here might be interested in this perspective.

[Almanac]

SevenStars, what's your opinion of the Irish state war against the loyalist working class?

[Jay Jay]

Reading all the above made me think of this site.. If you haven't already seen it, its worth a look...

Jesus Police Website

[Almanac]

Quite a collection of banned people on the thread.

[Almanac]

that timewasting pervert sent me a disgusting sexual pm a couple of months ago . I should have reported him .

lol.

That must have been funny.

[Almanac]

What was wrong with the victim of Orange tyranny waging war on their oppressors?

Guess who Roger became?