A partitionist attitude

[Thranduil]

Would this have anything to do with the fact that the Northern Uí Néill were nearly always in the ascendancy in Ireland throughout much of the middle ages so would have been regarded and maybe regarded themselves as the de facto leaders of the Irish.

Well it is kind of normal among a people for the strongest to see themselves as having the right to rule, it happens in all nations in these times - culturally they were one with the people of the other provinces as opposed to representing foreign interests and foreign ways though.

Greater than ambition was the realisation at the time that any British interference in Irish affairs could no longer just be tolerated passively over the long term because a few decades previously they had begun a policy of plantations/foreign settlement and the Northerners would have seen a touch of genocidal intent in that even if Edmund Spenser hadn't articulated such intentions so plainly and with brutal honesty. It turns out such instincts were right as the next century would show.

[Dasayev]

There is nothing 'striking' about it, the old names like Connaught, Ulster etc came into being because different kingdoms arose in Ireland and gave them existence. Ancient Ireland was not united, Ulster was not any more 'separate' to Connaught than Connaught was to Munster or Leinster. The King of Connaught would have been aware of borders between his kingdom and that of Munster too. You are simply picking out an example (Ulster Connaught) that was actually the norm throughout the island which was fractured politically and trying to hyphenate it's singular importance to fit into a two nations narrative.

I agree. Using Tommy's arguments you could justify partitioning Ireland in a multiple of ways.

Leinster has always been different to the rest of Ireland

- Leinster is named after a Gaulish speer
- Leinster was always forming alliances with foreigners - eg Vikings and Normans.
- As the weakest province it was never respected by the other provinces - even to this day its rugby team is derided for being "ladyboys", and so too is the Dublin Gaelic football team.
- The Pale was located here, and Dublin is full of West Brits and Jackeens.

Munster has always been different to the rest of Ireland

- Munster was excluded from the High Kingship by Kings from Ulster and Midhe for hundreds of years
- Much of the Civil War took place in Munster
- Munster GAA players are always on strike, and its soccer players claim that they are discriminated against.
- Roy Keane and the Saipan affair.
- Stephen Ireland refuses to play for Ireland.


... and so on and so on...

[Northern Voice]

I must admit I have often found it puzzling that Irish nationalists are so keen to utilise the economic benefits of the Union whilst condemning it on the other hand. That said, I believe cross border trade is healthy and advantageous for people on the both sides of the border.

[Mr.Ograff]

Mr.Ograff, what do you think of politicians who say that individuals purchasing goods in Northern Ireland, contributing to cross-border trade, are unpatriotic?

I don't think it's unpatriotic. Its just a shame that the taxes all go to that b1tch in Buckingham. Politicians who say that will rarely say it on a national stage but on a local one to keep the yokals happy.I would much rather encourage shop local and that doesnt mean the nearest tesco no matter what side of the border.

Its all well and dandy for politicians of all political parties to say don't go across the border to shop but they'd welcome as much northern custom as possible on the otherhand. Its a business, you have to trade both ways for it to be successful.

[YoungLiberal]

- As the weakest province it was never respected by the other provinces - even to this day its rugby team is derided for being "ladyboys", and so too is the Dublin Gaelic football team.

I think you mean Heineken Cup champions and the second most succesful football county in the country

- The Pale was located here, and Dublin is full of West Brits and Jackeens.

Well, of course Dublin is full of jackeens, that's a bit of a tautology!

[Murph]

The Problem is, our politicians should be telling people that they cross the border to shop -to do otherwise is to reveal a partiionist mindset and to the contridictions that go with i ie cross border trade and all ireland institutions etc.

But if we bring it down to simple economics like some do to justify never considering the formation of a UI, then they are simply missing the point and not dealing with the contidictions.

[democrat]

Why the pretence on the part of SF dreamers that, despite inernationally recognised legislation, this island is composed of one "nation"? I have said before on this site that I have so many decent friends from N.I. However, my Northern friends and I hail from separate states - neither they nor I consider this inarguable fact an impediment to our friendship.

[st333ve]

Yes, maybe in St333veworld.

Mock all you like.

If it wasnt for Ulster you'd be singing God Save the Queen, be living in West Britain and cheering on the troops coming back from Iraq in Dublin while the Union Jack flies ontop of the GPO, in Cork, Galway and al across West Britain.

People woud be talking about their Irish roots, and learning about Irish people in history class.

[democrat]

Not exactly an apocalyptic scene Steve - what is your point?

[SevenStars]

Why the pretence on the part of SF dreamers that, despite inernationally recognised legislation, this island is composed of one "nation"? I have said before on this site that I have so many decent friends from N.I. However, my Northern friends and I hail from separate states - neither they nor I consider this inarguable fact an impediment to our friendship.

State and nation are not the same.

I have hardly any loyality at all to the state but I love my nation.