Robinson Claims 'Unanimous' Support for Policing & Justice Deal

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How do you know that?
You were blogging earlier that the PMS would be part of the deal, you arose too early this morning, me thinks. Forgive me if I don't accept you opinion that it will be a rehash of the Asdown proposals

Are these the same principles, that Pat was lambasting me because the SDLP had accepted/approved them?
Sinn Fein could not decide one way or another at that time whether to accept them, why would they be prepared to accept them now.

Like I say, seems SF have no appatite for an election at the moment either, it should have been Policing anf Justice devolved, with no side deals or an early election.
The DUP coming from a weaker position, and suppossedly having more to fear from an early election, have essentially got what they wanted. The Parades commision will be gone by the end of the year.

You claim SF had no appetitie for an election. Yet the current discussions came about because Martin McGuinness was threatening to resign - and that was before Irisgate.

You're spinning hard to make this look like some kind of SF defeat when it's nothing of the sort.

Spike Murray signed up to the Ashdown proposals. The Parades Commission makes stupid decisions at the NIO's behest - e.g. Ardoyne, Rasharkin. And Nigel Dodds said that Policing & Justce would not be devolved in a political lifetime!

[mutley]

You claim SF had no appetitie for an election. Yet the current discussions came about because Martin McGuinness was threatening to resign - and that was before Irisgate.

You're spinning hard to make this look like some kind of SF defeat when it's nothing of the sort.

Spike Murray signed up to the Ashdown proposals. The Parades Commission makes stupid decisions at the NIO's behest - e.g. Ardoyne, Rasharkin. And Nigel Dodds said that Policing & Justce would not be devolved in a political lifetime!

Asking questions is not spinning, Martin did threaten to resign, but he didn't actually resign.


It is a fair question to ask, why have Sinn Fein allowed parades to be part of the Deal for Policing and Justice?

Surely with the DUP running scared at the prospect of an election, M MG should have said a date for devolution, no ifs or buts or I'm resigning.

What were nearly two weeks of talks about? Wasn't that the whole stalemate, DUP where stating no devolution without concessions on parading. Sinn Fein where saying Devolution, no concessions to parading.

This was the point that the 2 parties would not move on was it not?

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Sinn Féin got what they wanted, namely a date for the devolution of Policing and Justice. Thus Martin McGuinness had no need to resign. In return the DUP got what they needed - abolition of the Parades Commission. In its place will come something similar, except that rather than the NIO appointing the people who make the decisions the First and Deputy First Minister appoint them.

“And what has the DUP got in return? Almost nothing; the risible fig leaf of a review of a review of the Parades Commission! Make no mistake, the Parades Commission stays. When what is proposed walks like the Parades Commission, talks like the Parades Commission and looks like the Parades Commission, IT IS THE PARADES COMMISSION.

http://www.jimallister.org/default.asp?blogID=1863

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Sinn Féin got what they wanted, namely a date for the devolution of Policing and Justice. Thus Martin McGuinness had no need to resign. In return the DUP got what they needed - abolition of the Parades Commission. In its place will come something similar, except that rather than the NIO appointing the people who make the decisions the First and Deputy First Minister appoint them.

There was stalemate, deadlock, two weeks of talking and the issue was that Sinn Fein would were adamant that parading would not be part of a deal on the Devolution of P&J and the DUP where just as adamant that parading would be part of the deal.
Sinn Fein did get a date for devolution, but they could have had that months/ weeks ago if they gave concessions on parading.
So they have gained nothing extra by holding out.

If they were so adamant that there would be no deal that included parading, why did M MG not resign?

And using Jim Allister as a reference proves nothing, that would be like me quoting the latest press releases from Eirgi, to make my point

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Spike Murray, a senior republican, particpated in the Ashdown review and signed off on the proposals resulting for it, thus the review of the review which Allister mentions.

It's a face saver for the DUP, no more no less.

Sure why don't you quote éirígí? They're saying more or less the same as you are.

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Spike Murray, a senior republican, particpated in the Ashdown review and signed off on the proposals resulting for it, thus the review of the review which Allister mentions.

It's a face saver for the DUP, no more nor less.

Sure why don't you quote éirígí? They're saying more or less the same as you are.

But Sinn Fein were strongly resistant to the Ashdown Proposals, why the change of heart?

You maintained that the parades resolution would be a rehash of the Ashdown proposals,
The Ashwdown proposals were something that the DUP where pushing for and Sinn Fein were resisting. How is that a face saving exercise, if the DUP are in effect going to get the Ashdown proposals according to you?

YOu have still to answer my question
If Sinn Fein were so adamant that there would be no deal that included parading, why did M MG not resign?

[tiocfaidh]

There was stalemate, deadlock, two weeks of talking and the issue was that Sinn Fein would were adamant that parading would not be part of a deal on the Devolution of P&J and the DUP where just as adamant that parading would be part of the deal.
Sinn Fein did get a date for devolution, but they could have had that months/ weeks ago if they gave concessions on parading.
So they have gained nothing extra by holding out.

If they were so adamant that there would be no deal that included parading, why did M MG not resign?

And using Jim Allister as a reference proves nothing, that would be like me quoting the latest press releases from Eirgi, to make my point

So there are two questions: (1) Did the DUP win the scrapping of the Parades Commission? The unambiguous answer is "yes". The Parades Commission is very clearly, unambiguously, being scrapped. It's only a matter of when. The Agreement at Hillsbough Castle ("AHC") says the final bill will be fully invoked on 13 December, but when did anything ever go according to schedule in the 6C?
(2) Did the DUP really win any concessions of substance? Aside from the blustering and posturing of politicians, this is really the only question that matters. SF will argue that the new arrangements will provide results at least as good, from a Nationalist perspective, as the old Parades Commission. The DUP will argue that the new arrangements will be far more sympathetic to loyalist marches. And the TUV will be strange bedfellows with SF on this, so they can argue that the DUP gave in to republicans.

Really only time will tell whether this new parades body arrangement hurts or helps nationalists.

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Its inconceivable that the working group of parading was not predetermined in the talks-that is what the working group will agree has already been decided in the negotiations.

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Really only time will tell whether this new parades body arrangement hurts or helps nationalists.

Its not about helping nationalists or helping unionists. Its about creating a win win via a better framework.

[tiocfaidh]

If Sinn Fein were so adamant that there would be no deal that included parading, why did M MG not resign?

The only two possible answers to that are (1) That SF honestly decided the new parading arrangements did not constitute giving anything up; or (2) SF inexplicably lost nerve or did not have stomach for an election.

I hope they know something I don't and the answer is (1), but I agree with your earlier email in that it sure seems, at this early stage, that the new arrangements more closely resemble what the DUP wnated all along more than anything else.