Robinson Claims 'Unanimous' Support for Policing & Justice Deal

[st333ve]

Those places arnt northern Ireland where Britishness is 200 years behind and resembles imperial fascism.
If its not English it shouldnt exist, the Irish are dirty peasents etc.

[picador]

Those places arnt northern Ireland where Britishness is 200 years behind and resembles imperial fascism.
If its not English it shouldnt exist, the Irish are dirty peasents etc.

It's real insidious stuff. True believers - of whom there is an ever decreasing number - will doubtless lap up every word. Then one day they'll see a signpost in Irish - and the sky won't fall on their heads.

[mutley]

Sounds pretty adamant to me.

I never said it was a defeat for Sinn Fein or betrayal by Sinn Fein, I never said that Sinn Fein had sold anyone down the River, and I have not given a single opinion as to what the effects of the Abolution of the Parades will be for the Nationalist Community.
I said that judging from the outcome of the negotiations, Sinn Fein had no real appitite for an early election IMO.

These negoiations were a victory for the DUP, even under the weight of Irisgate, they bargained hard, theyeven got a veto on the devolution of Policing and Justice, even with the threat of MMG resigning and an Assembley election being called, they stood firm and achieved their preconditions.

Spinning for the DUP now!

Would you like to point out, what is incorrect about what I said?

Well you have accussed me for spinning for the DUP, would you please point out what is incorrect by what I said.

If the DUP were to welsh on this deal (and by implication the St Andrews deal) they would be doing so on the issue of Orange parades alone. They would be seen as totally unresaonable, not just in UK and world opinion, but in the eyes of the vast swathes of the unionist electorate which are not actually involved in the Orange Order. They would lose what remaining credibility they had and would be crushed at the Stormont election that would follow.

The Parades Commission is an NIO controlled quango which is subject to political interference (e.g Hain's appointment of TWO Orangemen) and allows Oranges marches through nationalist areas such as the village of Rasharkin. Sinn Féin has never been committed to its retention. The new arrangements have had Sinn Féin input, will have Sinn Féin input and if what eventually emerges is not to Sinn Féin's liking, it can be subject to Sinn Féin veto.

Any suggestion that the Orange Order will be cocks of the walk again is base sectarian scaremongering of the sort that Jim Allister specialises in. It ain't gonna happen!

Nearly everyone already thought it was unreasonable that the DUP were including a precondition on Parading as totally unreasonable, and it begs the question, if large swathes of Unionists who are not part of the Orange Order would few these actions as unreasonable, then why did the DUP pander to the Orange Order in the first place, if this was not a measure they felt would be popular with a large number of the Unionist Population.

Whatever you say about Sinn Fein input into the new parading proposals, or the Parades commission, it does not change the fact that Sinn Fein where adamant that there were to be no concessions on parading, but at the end of the negoiations that is what happened. and it is an entirely reasonable question to ask why they threatened 'to go nuclear' if preconditions on parading were part of any deal done on policing and justice, if the new proposals would give them a veto and would be a better proposition than the Parades commission?

An interesting and well-balanced analysis from TUV blogger Turgon over at Slugger O'Toole. I recommend it.

So you are using Jim Allister of the TUV, and Turgon a TUV blogger to reinforce your agrument, hardly credible considering their main objective is to grab DUP votes.

[picador]

Well you have accussed me for spinning for the DUP, would you please point out what is incorrect by what I said.




Nearly everyone already thought it was unreasonable that the DUP were including a precondition on Parading as totally unreasonable, and it begs the question, if large swathes of Unionists who are not part of the Orange Order would few these actions as unreasonable, then why did the DUP pander to the Orange Order in the first place, if this was not a measure they felt would be popular with a large number of the Unionist Population.

Whatever you say about Sinn Fein input into the new parading proposals, or the Parades commission, it does not change the fact that Sinn Fein where adamant that there were to be no concessions on parading, but at the end of the negoiations that is what happened. and it is an entirely reasonable question to ask why they threatened 'to go nuclear' if preconditions on parading were part of any deal done on policing and justice, if the new proposals would give them a veto and would be a better proposition than the Parades commission?






So you are using Jim Allister of the TUV, and Turgon a TUV blogger to reinforce your agrument, hardly credible considering their main objective is to grab DUP votes.

No, I recommended it as I thought it made an interesting analysis. apart from that I made no comment.

As this debate is going round in circles I see no point in continuing it.

[Katayusha Mk2]

No, I recommended it as I thought it made an interesting analysis. apart from that I made no comment.

As this debate is going round in circles I see no point in continuing it.

Explain to us Picador. as a pro-GFA mouthpiece. how devolved control over the mundane aspects of British policing in the 6 can lead to a united Ireland worthy of the sacrifice when MI5 are in control of said policing with no PSF opposition. You will of course be totally devoid of an argument should you choose to place any significant emphasis on anything other than that which you have been directly asked.

[picador]

Explain to us Picador. as a pro-GFA mouthpiece. how devolved control over the mundane aspects of British policing in the 6 can lead to a united Ireland worthy of the sacrifice when MI5 are in control of said policing with no PSF opposition. You will of course be totally devoid of an argument should you choose to place any significant emphasis on anything other than that which you have been directly asked.

Are you referring to your role as a mercenary footsoldier in George W Bush's illegal invasion of Iraq and your participation in imperialist war crimes while you were there?

Sure why would I mention that!?

[picador]

99% of policing will be under the control of a locally elected administration. This makes the administration of policing and justice accountable to people in the North. Whether this advances a united Ireland is open to question. It certainly doesn't delay it.

[mutley]

No, I recommended it as I thought it made an interesting analysis. apart from that I made no comment.

As this debate is going round in circles I see no point in continuing it.

In other words you concede to my points

[picador]

Wishful thinking.

[mutley]

Wishful thinking.

No you accused me of Spin, and I asked you to point out what was incorrect about what I said, and you could not do it, thus conceding