Ethnic-Chauvinism within the Sinn Féin Party ?? : Discuss.

[st333ve]

Who in SF or the SDLP think that Unionists arnt British?

You cant just point the finger at people and complain they think you arnt British in order to fill a stereotype you have.

I see no evidence of what this person claims.

We live in a place plastered in Union Jacks, where thousands of Loyalist march trample all over the place.

Belfast is full of statues of Monarchs and places named after royalty.

Yet we have Unionists complaining that their identity isnt respected, but never a valid reason to back up their claim.

The reality is that the Nationalist identity gets no state recognition and never an ounce of respect from Unionist politicians.

To say that 'Theyre all as bad as eachother' is ridiculous.

There's more Union Jacks in Northern Ireland than in England.
I went to Manchester and the only Union Jacks I seen where on hotels, with many other flags.
When I returned here the contrast was shocking.

The British identity isnt just respected here, it's in overload.

Their problem is that abundance and overload just isnt enough and any attempt to cut it down or stop it growing is viewed as an attack on their identity.

When you believe that you must have full control of the state and that you must crush Nationalists in every way possible, then any attempt to respect Nationalist culture will seem like a defeat.

[former wesleyan]

Who in SF or the SDLP think that Unionists arnt British?

You cant just point the finger at people and complain they think you arnt British in order to fill a stereotype you have.

I see no evidence of what this person claims.

We live in a place plastered in Union Jacks, where thousands of Loyalist march trample all over the place.

Belfast is full of statues of Monarchs and places named after royalty.

Yet we have Unionists complaining that their identity isnt respected, but never a valid reason to back up their claim.

The reality is that the Nationalist identity gets no state recognition and never an ounce of respect from Unionist politicians.

To say that 'Theyre all as bad as eachother' is ridiculous.

There's more Union Jacks in Northern Ireland than in England.
I went to Manchester and the only Union Jacks I seen where on hotels, with many other flags.
When I returned here the contrast was shocking.

The British identity isnt just respected here, it's in overload.

Their problem is that abundance and overload just isnt enough and any attempt to cut it down or stop it growing is viewed as an attack on their identity.

When you believe that you must have full control of the state and that you must crush Nationalists in every way possible, then any attempt to respect Nationalist culture will seem like a defeat.

The population of Manchester don't have their identity threatened.
You won't find " Jaffas'll have to learn to swim " graffiiti in Manchester.
The OO etc are irish secret societies; in this case prod ones.
Prods are a minority on the island of ireland.
Militant nationalists lie through their teeth. An example of this is
the graveside oration of John Joe McGirl at the Edentubber burials( a subject
which has come up again )
QUOTE
" having examined and employed all peacefull aproaches to the unnatural division of our country... Unquote
Did they fUkc examine all , or employ all, peacefull aproaches and duplicity such as this means that you/we are doomed to have fundie prods marching all over the place.

[st333ve]

I dont know why youre discussing the micro militant dissident opinion.

And the Orange Order is a British society, please respect their right to be British.

The Unionist identity here is under as much threat as someone in Manchester.

Unless you think that complete Unionist dominance is their identity, in that case that is under threat and so it should be.

The over abundance and belief in dominance is under threat, not their identity.

[factual]

I saw this report linked in a couple of places this morning and granted it is written from a British /Unionist
perspective BUT that's the thing about Processes (including Peace processes) : all sides should have the
ability to discuss the political, religious and indeed ethnic peculiarities and possibilites within the overall context
of what is achievable (and has thus far been achieved).


The article is by Christopher Montgomery and is entitled 'Republicans need a dose of reality'

The main points follow :

i). The fundamental problem with nationalists in Northern Ireland is an unwillingness to concede that 'Unionists are British'.

ii). The agreement is essentially 'Hume-ite' , thus it accepts the province's place in the union as the consequence of
majority sentiment , freely expressed.

iii). it doesn't let the majority do anything democratically, in any devolved institutions, hence election-discounting
devolution is the order of the day.

Montgomery then goes on to discuss how this effects the voting base of Sinn Féin and how this is playing out
in the absence of agreement, interesting piece, linked here :

Republicans need a dose of reality | Christopher Montgomery | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

It caught my eye because one thing I loathe politically is ethnic-chauvinism, to me it is a bunch of (mainly men)
posturing and beating their chests whilst the economy goes down the toilet . I also feel that lots of politics is
becoming increasingly irrelevant in the actual course of people's lives because they ignore important things
like healthcare/education and pressing issues of censorship/personal security etcetera.

any thoughts???

I think that an analysis that blames one "side" or one "party" is not good. We in Dublin have to think about ways forward that respect both sides and generate win/win for both sides up there. So to blast SF and criticise SF is wrong; in fact SF is one of the parties that has worked the hardest to bring peace.

[Christine Murray]

@factual but the article was written from a unionist perspective and therefore a valid reflection of his position on devolution - should he not publish for fear of offense ?

[st333ve]

We in Dublin have to think about ways forward that respect both sides and generate win/win for both sides up there.

Is this guy for real?

[factual]

Is this guy for real?

Yes, I mean if you look at the six counties, you see a situation where people are so obsessed with each other that they regard a "gain" for the other side as a loss for their side, but in most situations you have to change the game so its win/win not win/lose in order to move forward.

[Panopticon]

Totally false dichotomy by the author.

If "British" means "lives in Britain", then Unionists are not British by definition. If "British" means "culturally affine to Britain", then that's an obvious fact that nobody is denying.

It's also hilarious to hear his squeals about power-sharing that "doesn't let that majority actually do anything democratically in any devolved intuitions". What he won't tell you is that the last time they were allowed to "do anything democratically", we got majoritarianism.

I am perfectly sympathetic to the idea that NI is a settled fact of history and that its future should be whatever the majority decides, but it's galling to see a Unionism that thinks it shouldn't need to give a single real concession to the minority community.

[chadmikeymicheals]

who deny's the unionist are british?

i think you would find more republicans insisting that they are british.

the problem is that the unionist dont understand that britain is an island, as is Ireland, ulster was not, is not, and never shall be british.

[Chrisco]

Who in SF or the SDLP think that Unionists arnt British?

You cant just point the finger at people and complain they think you arnt British in order to fill a stereotype you have.

I see no evidence of what this person claims.

We live in a place plastered in Union Jacks, where thousands of Loyalist march trample all over the place.

Belfast is full of statues of Monarchs and places named after royalty.

Yet we have Unionists complaining that their identity isnt respected, but never a valid reason to back up their claim.

The reality is that the Nationalist identity gets no state recognition and never an ounce of respect from Unionist politicians.

To say that 'Theyre all as bad as eachother' is ridiculous.

There's more Union Jacks in Northern Ireland than in England.
I went to Manchester and the only Union Jacks I seen where on hotels, with many other flags.
When I returned here the contrast was shocking.

The British identity isnt just respected here, it's in overload.

Their problem is that abundance and overload just isnt enough and any attempt to cut it down or stop it growing is viewed as an attack on their identity.

When you believe that you must have full control of the state and that you must crush Nationalists in every way possible, then any attempt to respect Nationalist culture will seem like a defeat.

There are a significant number of Republican posters both on here and out in the real world, with JCSkinner at their head, who argue at length that Ulster Unionists aren't British.