Originally Posted by Cdebru

When people stop to think about this they will come to the blindingly obvious that either Liam or Gerry or both are touts.
There is no other possible explanation as to why the RUC not only did not use this to discredit Adams over the last 22 years but also provided clearance for Liam to work as a Youth worker.

Why would the RUC possibly keep this a secret for 22 years other than to protect a tout or it was what they used to turn a tout.
Adams has qustions to answer re the protection of children from this man he says he has accepted from the time he was informed that his brother was a child abuser.

Other than that Adams also has questions to answer why a man so compromised was allowed to continue in any capacity within the republican movement.

I understand the focus has obviously been on the child abuse and the possibility that this man was allowed to operate in positions where he had access to children.

But what might do Adams in the end is not the child abuse per se but the fact that the only conceivable explanation is that one or both of them are touts.
It is inconceivable that the British would have let this slip by and not used it.Even Aine in her interview says that the only interest the RUC had at the time was trying to recruit them as informers you can be 100% certain that was their main interest when they interviewed Liam as well.

It is also interesting that what is generally accepted as the start of the peace process the hume/adams talks started within a year of this.
It actually looks like the British ended up basically controlling all sides in the conflict and set about turning the ship slowly.

It beggars belief that the PSNI would not have an active arrest warrant for Liam Adams. Why did he hand himself in to the Sligo Gardai? Because this is what his PSNI/MI5 minders advised him to do?

I feel sorry for the victim.

First she tells the Police and they do nothing , apart from try to make her an informer which probobly prevented the case from being brought forward.
Then it surfaces again and the whole thing is used to indirectly discredit Gerry Adams.

It's sad but the victim here has constantly been the least important part of this story.

People will run around talking about informers and using this story to fit their own agenda, which is exactly what you should never do with such a case.
People should be encouraged to report sexual abuse, using such abuse to fit whatever political agenda you have against the family will only make more people reluctant to report such things in the future.

Such things should never be used to collectively blame the entire family, if that is what people believe will happen after they report abuse then they never will.

Originally Posted by st333ve

I feel sorry for the victim.

First she tells the Police and they do nothing , apart from try to make her an informer which probobly prevented the case from being brought forward.
Then it surfaces again and the whole thing is used to indirectly discredit Gerry Adams.

It's sad but the victim here has constantly been the least important part of this story.

People will run around talking about informers and using this story to fit their own agenda, which is exactly what you should never do with such a case.
People should be encouraged to report sexual abuse, using such abuse to fit whatever political agenda you have against the family will only make more people reluctant to report such things in the future.

Such things should never be used to collectively blame the entire family, if that is what people believe will happen after they report abuse then they never will.

But st333ve, looking at the victim's point of view we must remember that she said, regarding her uncle Gerry , "I ended up saying look do you know what it is, you have failed me again, when twenty years later I’ve asked you to do one thing.”, so we should not ignore the fact that she feels he let her down very badly, almost as badly as she says her father did. The RUC did try to get information from Aine's mother and acted despicably also but the indications from the UTV programme were that Aine withdrew her complaint due to other pressure, not because the RUC were asking her mother about other people, and recently she has said that she and her mother were ostracised by the Adams family after she went to the police so there are many twists and turns to the whole story.
Liam Adams is apparently the main culprit but that does not take away from Gerry the responsibilities he had as an uncle, an MP., a party leader, a leader of the republican movement as well as a very public figure whose words carried clout.

Originally Posted by MickFealty

Pat,

Sorry, my previous answer appears not to have made it through.

You insist on the word 'alleged' victim. And I agree with that. But the strange thing is that the insistence comes from you, since your president says he is firmly of the belief that she IS a victim.

The issue is not a legal one, it's political. Your insistence betrays a lack of belief in your leader as such, or perhaps just a belief in his judgement on this matter.

By far the most interesting aspect of this whole affair, from a political as opposed to a criminal point of view are the strange inconsistency over the Dundalk 1997 selection.

Gerry says to Tommie Gorman that he stepped in immediately there was even a possibility that Liam might stand for nomination. Yet his spokesman just the day before tells us he did not act until 1999, two years later. Two years is not, by any stretch of the imagination, moving "very, very quickly"...

In the McCartney case we had to wait for independent journalists to falsify the official Sinn Fein line that it was knife crime, and not what it turned out to be: an IRA team that went completely feral on a Sunday night in the pub. That feral team ended up dragging the whole movement behind its own sorry mess.

This time, the President is falsifying the party line all by himself.

Liam's guilt or innocence, I suspect, cannot be conclusively ascertained on medical evidence taken four years after the abuse ended. Then we are down to 'he said, she said'. For the rest of us, we must work on what the courts say.

Whilst the President of Sinn Fein expresses no doubt on the matter, one of his more talented senior officers is curiously doubtful enough to insist that others use the term 'alleged' before the word victim.

Go figure! Oh, and Happy Christmas!!

First of all Mick thanks for replying.

I insist on the word alleged because on whatever level you look at this we are only dealing with allegations. As for there being a difference with Gerry Adams on the case then it is obvious why that should be so. Gerry has dealt with the main characters involved with this case over a prolonged period. He would be privy to information from both parties that has not as yet come into the public domain. He alluded as such when stating he made a statement to the PSNI. Unfortunately, I like most people, am simply dealing with what little evidence that appeared on the UTV programme. Thus I can only base my opinions on that. That is in no way evidence that I disbelieve Gerry Adams.
I know that it is common currency that SF members are described as robots and clones without independent thought. SF itself is the alleged party of the cult. I fail to subscribe to that theory and will continue to do so.

As for the talented senior officer label I take it in the tongue in cheek manner it was offered.

Belated good wishes for the holidays.

I saw the entire UTV interview. In it Gerry Adams states he believes his niece. I also found her testimony entirely convincing. Liam Adams states he is innocent and is not likely to get a fair trial in NI because of media coverage of the case.

This is nonsense. The PSNI clearly don't want a trial because a lot of other filth is liable to emerge in same.

Who shot Denis Donaldson? Who is going to shoot Liam Adams? Dead man walking.

Originally Posted by Phinaeus

I saw the entire UTV interview. In it Gerry Adams states he believes his niece. I also found her testimony entirely convincing. Liam Adams states he is innocent and is not likely to get a fair trial in NI because of media coverage of the case.

This is nonsense. The PSNI clearly don't want a trial because a lot of other filth is liable to emerge in same.

Who shot Denis Donaldson? Who is going to shoot Liam Adams? Dead man walking.

with himself feeling enough heat to hand himself in after a year " on the run" with no cops looking for him or issuing an alert much less a warrant , with the Irish cops telling him just to go on home and we wont even be monitoring your whereabouts , and the british cops saying there might be a warrant in a month or two....id be getting a bit paranoid if i was him .

It has to be remembered this man was unbeknownst to the genral public on the run evading arrest for over a year . Its clear from that the state had absolutely no interest in embarassing gerry adams or securing his arrest . Had it not been for his alleged victim waiving her right to anonymity and going to the media wed simply know damn all about this .

Originally Posted by Phinaeus

I saw the entire UTV interview. In it Gerry Adams states he believes his niece. I also found her testimony entirely convincing. Liam Adams states he is innocent and is not likely to get a fair trial in NI because of media coverage of the case.

This is nonsense. The PSNI clearly don't want a trial because a lot of other filth is liable to emerge in same.

Who shot Denis Donaldson? Who is going to shoot Liam Adams? Dead man walking.

If it goes to Trial there is the possibility that Liam will be pleading not guilty

Speaking through his solicitor, Liam Adams also told the Irish News that he denies the allegations against him.

Liam Adams presented himself to Irish police in Sligo on Monday, but they were unable to detain him because there was not a European arrest warrant against him.

His solicitor, Philip Breen of Breen Rankin Lenzi Solicitors, said Mr Adams had only been contacted once by police, in February 2007, by police investigating the allegations.

Mr Adams, he said, was interviewed three times on 15 February 2007 at Grosvenor Road police station in west Belfast before being released.

Prosecution papers were issued in March 2008, but were never served as Adams could not be located.


There's a good discussion going on over at Slugger about the implications of the allegations in the media.


Slugger O'Toole

Originally Posted by merle haggard

with himself feeling enough heat to hand himself in after a year " on the run" with no cops looking for him or issuing an alert much less a warrant , with the Irish cops telling him just to go on home and we wont even be monitoring your whereabouts , and the british cops saying there might be a warrant in a month or two....id be getting a bit paranoid if i was him .

It has to be remembered this man was unbeknownst to the genral public on the run evading arrest for over a year . Its clear from that the state had absolutely no interest in embarassing gerry adams or securing his arrest . Had it not been for his alleged victim waiving her right to anonymity and going to the media wed simply know damn all about this .

I'd disagree with you slightly there, merle. If the suits had decided it was timely and to their advantage they'd have plucked him for feathering some sort of bed. I'd say they had it as a saver. They'll have tick it off their to-do list. I haven't discerned a 'give them a break' attitude among the gardaí as far as provies are concerned.

Originally Posted by Gabha Óir

I'd disagree with you slightly there, merle. If the suits had decided it was timely and to their advantage they'd have plucked him for feathering some sort of bed. I'd say they had it as a saver. They'll have tick it off their to-do list. I haven't discerned a 'give them a break' attitude among the gardaí as far as provies are concerned.

a saver for what ? adams had already publicly declared he didnt see himself being sf leader for all that much longer . His replacements were already being openly discussed . And what is it you reckon the brits would want to pressure adams into doing exactly ? what has he ever refused to do ? we now know that his stalling on surrendering weapons and supprting the british police was understood by the british government , who were as desperate as himself to avoid any splits .
as for not detecting any give them a break attitude id remind you of the paul quinn murder and garda attempts to have possession of an assault rifle regarding a ministerial driver heard in a district court alongside tv license offences . Theyve also had the judges initial refusal to hear the case overturned . That case was simultaneous to a decisin to have weapons possession charges , including another ak reduced to a ridiculous unlicensed firearm charge for an associate 2 miles the other side of the border . If you or me were caught with an ak it would be straight to the Special Criminal Court and maximum security portlaoise . People - provies - are most certainly being given breaks either side of the border