The facts of the hunger strikes have already been established

[minstrelboy]

On a warm summer's evenin' on a train bound for nowhere,
I met up with the gambler; we were both too tired to sleep.
So we took turns a starin' out the window at the darkness
'Til boredom overtook us, and he began to speak.

He said, "Son, I've made my life out of readin' people's faces,
And knowin' what their cards were by the way they held their eyes.
so if you don't mind my sayin', I can see you're out of aces.
For a taste of your whiskey I'll give you some advice."

So I handed him my bottle and he drank down my last swallow.
Then he bummed a cigarette and asked me for a light.
And the night got deathly quiet, and his face lost all expression.
Said, "If you're gonna play the game, boy, ya gotta learn to play it right.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
[COLOR="Red"]Know when to walk away and know when to run.[/COLOR]
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.

Ev'ry gambler knows that the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what to throw away and knowing what to keep.
'Cause ev'ry hand's a winner and ev'ry hand's a loser,
[COLOR="Red"]And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep."[/COLOR]

When he'd finished speakin', he turned back towards the window,
Crushed out his cigarette and faded off to sleep.
And somewhere in the darkness the gambler, he broke even.
But in his final words I found an ace that I could keep.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
[COLOR="Red"]You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.[/COLOR]
chrousx3

[eyeswideopen]

I don't agree with PSF, but everything known about Thatcher suggests she was happy to see the hunger strikers die. I'm not sure how credible I think it is that an offer of any kind would be made and not passed on. Surely the British would have known it had not been passed on and made hay of that situation in some way or another.

[Katayusha Mk2]

I don't agree with PSF, but everything known about Thatcher suggests she was happy to see the hunger strikers die. I'm not sure how credible I think it is that an offer of any kind would be made and not passed on. Surely the British would have known it had not been passed on and made hay of that situation in some way or another.

We know that there were negotiations which lead to an offer which was essentially the concessions put in place when the hunger strike ended due to family interventions. This is established and documented fact.

Thatcher's emotions in regard to the hunger strikers would have been secondary to the international pressure and civil disorder in the 6 that propelled the desire for resolution. There is no point talking about British bad faith when the conditions of the offer were the same as what was ultimately put in place.

It is possible that the British made the offer in the expectation that it would be refused; they knew who they were dealing with and most likely had infiltrated the decision making process. Nonetheless, six men may have been saved had Thatcher's bluff been called. Furthermore there are indications that the negotiations that led to the offer and the decision to reject the offer may not have been authorised by the IRA army council. The IRA prison leadership accepted the offer but there is question as to whether the army council were aware of it in executive numbers.

The British could not have 'made hay' of the offer rejection as that would have shown them to have been 'talking to terrorists'. An acceptance of the offer would have provided this propaganda coup but for some strange reason the strategically stupid approach was taken.

[the dark angel]

We know that there were negotiations which lead to an offer which was essentially the concessions put in place when the hunger strike ended due to family interventions. This is established and documented fact.

Thatcher's emotions in regard to the hunger strikers would have been secondary to the international pressure and civil disorder in the 6 that propelled the desire for resolution. There is no point talking about British bad faith when the conditions of the offer were the same as what was ultimately put in place.

It is possible that the British made the offer in the expectation that it would be refused; they knew who they were dealing with and most likely had infiltrated the decision making process. Nonetheless, six men may have been saved had Thatcher's bluff been called. Furthermore there are indications that the negotiations that led to the offer and the decision to reject the offer may not have been authorised by the IRA army council. The IRA prison leadership accepted the offer but there is question as to whether the army council were aware of it in executive numbers.

The British could not have 'made hay' of the offer rejection as that would have shown them to have been 'talking to terrorists'. An acceptance of the offer would have provided this propaganda coup but for some strange reason the strategically stupid approach was taken.

It's sad that tout tw*ts like this katayuselessMI5tout thinks people are stupid enough to believe Brit propaganda almost 30 years after these tragic events. One of Ireland's greatest heroes, Bobby Sands deserves better than this bullsh*t that's being spouted by idiots, clearly in the pay of the British, like kat.

[Katayusha Mk2]

Bobby Sands died on May 5th 1981, as anyone with any knowledge of the hunger strike will know. He was followed by Francis Hughes, Ray McCreesh and Patsy O Hara. These four had already died prior to the British offer of July 1981 and the decision in regard to the offer directly affected Joe McDonnell, Martin Hurson, Kevin Lynch, Kieran Doherty and Mickey Devine.

Thatcher allowed ten to die but she was not the only one playing with their lives.

[the dark angel]

Bobby Sands died on May 5th 1981, as anyone with any knowledge of the hunger strike will know. He was followed by Francis Hughes, Ray McCreesh and Patsy O Hara. These four had already died prior to the British offer of July 1981 and the decision in regard to the offer directly affected Joe McDonnell, Martin Hurson, Kevin Lynch, Kieran Doherty and Mickey Devine.

Thatcher allowed ten to die but she was not the only one playing with their lives.

Thatchers storm trooper is still throwing mud. So how is your hero Lady Thatcher these days? Does she pay you direct?

[Katayusha Mk2]

Only an inquiry can solve 1981 Hunger Strike issues

Gerard Foster, Andersonstown
20/11/2009

Having read the two articles on the 1981 Hunger Strike issue (Irish News, October 22) of an offer made by the British, a number of things jumped out at me.

Firstly, how Richard O’Rawe stuck to asking questions and quoting named sources to make the points that he wanted to make of the ‘kitchen cabinet’ led by Gerry Adams. How he dealt with those who are trying to deride the debate using emotional points instead of answering the questions asked or trying to say that those who believe there is a version different from the Adams and Co line are calling the hunger strikers “dupes” or “fools”.

Secondly, in the article by Bernard Fox he was unable or unwilling to answer the points made by the Republicans who do not toe the Adams line. He was critical of the former Blanketmen who are asking questions about July 1981, as to “why they would wait all these years to bring this out”.

Yet he himself said in the same article “It took me 20 years before I could even speak openly about my experiences”.

Surely Bernard that answers your own point about the time span?

Bernard says he is emotional and raw even now for him and these claims just add to the pain, and then says he can only imagine what it must be like for the families of the 10 lads. Again he is using the Adams technique of tugging at people’s hearts by talking about the families and their pain instead of answering the questions. He seems to forget that at least two of the families are asking for an inquiry into the July 1981 offer.

Is their hurt and pain any less than the other families?

Thirdly, Bernard also states he has no time for inquiries and goes on to say “what is needed is the truth and it would be naive to think the British will ever tell the truth”.

We don’t need the British to tell the truth, what is needed is for the kitchen cabinet to answer the questions asked instead of running away from the issue and playing on people’s emotions, changing their version of the events in July 1981, contradicting each other and themselves. Why has Bernard avoided these things instead of telling us that “we [the prisoners] knew he [Bik] wasn’t going to let us down”?

Yet even Bik has changed his version a number of times of what actually happened in July 1981.

Not very reassuring is it?

Lastly, Bernard criticised claims the last six hunger strikers were allowed to die “in order to maximise electoral support for Sinn Fein”. I would ask Bernard who is making these claims? I know of nobody asking for the inquiry who is also claiming this.

An inquiry will look at what happened in July 1981 asking all those involved in the Mountain Climber offer what part they played and were the prisoners told everything. After it concludes with its findings then people will be asked why they acted the way they did and for what reasons. Adams and his kitchen cabinet cannot hide behind closed doors at private meetings hoping this will go away, it will not. Tony O’Hara in the letters page in the same issue of The Irish News asks questions of Gerry Adams that cannot be avoided much longer.

An objective and well put argument from Gerry Foster.

[Stendec]

Bobby Sands died on May 5th 1981, as anyone with any knowledge of the hunger strike will know. He was followed by Francis Hughes, Ray McCreesh and Patsy O Hara. These four had already died prior to the British offer of July 1981 and the decision in regard to the offer directly affected Joe McDonnell, Martin Hurson, Kevin Lynch, Kieran Doherty and Mickey Devine.

Thatcher allowed ten to die but she was not the only one playing with their lives.

should of buried them in a septic tank make them feel at home!!!!! HAHA!!

[Stendec]

An objective and well put argument from Gerry Foster.

tyoical nordie nacker wishin i get swineflu an you can shove your neggrepp up your h###

[Fraxinus_]

tyoical nordie nacker wishin i get swineflu an you can shove your neggrepp up your h###

Maybe he was just warning you, you do look quite red and flushed! (Terrible joke, but couldn't resist)