A Northern Free State: Vision or Nightmare?

[Cael]

What are the psychological effects of the establishment of a parliament on the people who vote in the elections of that parliament? This parliament inevitably comes to control a very powerful media presence which focuses on the comings and goings of the parliament - to the exclusion of all other alternatives. Members of this parliament inevitably define themselves in relation to the parliament and the mandate that this parliament has. In short, the establishment of an inclusive parliament is a powerful force in the consolidation of the "nation" which sends MPs to it. These MPs will tend to consolidate the power of this new parliament and work against the emerging of trends which might tend to de-stabilise its power and authority. Very shortly, we see the development of a form of nationalism focused on the parliament.

[farnaby]

Very shortly, we see the development of a form of nationalism focused on the parliament.

People have been voting in European Parliament elections for 25 years without the development of European nationalism or indeed the exclusion of 'other alternatives'. Or did you have a different parliament in mind to discuss Cael :wink:

[Cael]

Very shortly, we see the development of a form of nationalism focused on the parliament.

People have been voting in European Parliament elections for 25 years without the development of European nationalism or indeed the exclusion of 'other alternatives'. Or did you have a different parliament in mind to discuss Cael :wink:

Yes, of course I did. The title on this thread was composed by Pádraig, my title was quite different. But lets talk about the EU for a second. Are you sure the EU has not managed to effectively silence all serious consideration of alternatives to it?

[AndrewM]

Very shortly, we see the development of a form of nationalism focused on the parliament.

People have been voting in European Parliament elections for 25 years without the development of European nationalism or indeed the exclusion of 'other alternatives'. Or did you have a different parliament in mind to discuss Cael :wink:

Yes, of course I did. The title on this thread was composed by Pádraig, my title was quite different. But lets talk about the EU for a second. Are you sure the EU has not managed to effectively silence all serious consideration of alternatives to it?

I think the EP has assisted alternatives as it has created a forum. Just this week there was a story on BBC about how the far right are combining to form a new party. Far-left objections continue, you only have to look at the ECT to see that.
As for providing alternatives, that's not for the EU to do. That's for those who oppose it. That they haven't managed to do that is their fault, not part of some EU conspiracy.

[farnaby]

Are you sure the EU has not managed to effectively silence all serious consideration of alternatives to it?

I don't think national parliaments have been silenced, or that we are heading that way. I don't consider the EP/EU's media presence to be overpowering. The EP is just one power-holder within the EU, and probably not the most powerful.

[Cael]

I think the EP has assisted alternatives as it has created a forum. Just this week there was a story on BBC about how the far right are combining to form a new party. Far-left objections continue, you only have to look at the ECT to see that.
As for providing alternatives, that's not for the EU to do. That's for those who oppose it. That they haven't managed to do that is their fault, not part of some EU conspiracy.

Its not that alternatives to the EU dont exist. But the vast resourses the EU commands means that it has effective control over "mainstream" discourse in Europe. To return to the original focus of this thread, we see in the 06 the total media focus on Stormont Castle. The GFA has managed to change and control the language nationalists speak and barr vocab from "polite" or "reasonable" speech which would undermine the legitimacy of Stormont.

[farnaby]

To return to the original focus of this thread, we see in the 06 the total media focus on Stormont Castle. The GFA has managed to change and control the language nationalists speak and barr vocab from "polite" or "reasonable" speech which would undermine the legitimacy of Stormont.

Surely an improvement on media opining who does/doesn't take their seats or offices at Westminster.

[Cael]

To return to the original focus of this thread, we see in the 06 the total media focus on Stormont Castle. The GFA has managed to change and control the language nationalists speak and barr vocab from "polite" or "reasonable" speech which would undermine the legitimacy of Stormont.

Surely an improvement on media opining who does/doesn't take their seats or offices at Westminster.

It depends on what you want from Stormont. If you want it to develop into a northern free state that will secure an autonomous future for itself within the UK, then you are likely to regard it as a great success. We saw with the establishment of the southern free state, what was supposed to be just a "stepping Stone" soon turned into an end in itself. When a small elite gained power, their only ideal became holding on to that power. We even had the likes of Jack Lynch and Garrett Fitzgerald begging the British not to withdraw from Ireland lest the southern free state be destabilised. How long till we have former Republicans in the 06 begging the British not to leave in case the northern free state might be destabilised? Certainly if the six county free state becomes a stable and prosperous part of the UK, then anyone in Stormont even mentioning Irish Unity will be regarded as dangerous subversives.

[farnaby]

How long till we have former Republicans in the 06 begging the British not to leave in case the northern free state might be destabilised?

If the 06 is policed by a force accepted and governed by both sides of the community then there would be less risk of destabilisation resulting from a British withdrawal. Now there's an idea...

[Cael]

How long till we have former Republicans in the 06 begging the British not to leave in case the northern free state might be destabilised?

If the 06 is policed by a force accepted and governed by both sides of the community then there would be less risk of destabilisation resulting from a British withdrawal. Now there's an idea...

I have been warned by Pádraig that if this thread begins to focus on policing then it will be locked, so please forgive me I dont give your point the attention it deserves. Let me, instead, focus on the vested interests that will inevitably build up around Stormont Castle as they have around Leinster House. These tend to be the most powerful and wealthy elements, and it is these who would put up the biggest fight to any move that would rick unstability. You must also remember that when the ordinary Unionist gets his Stormont back, he will feel quite justified in wanting to defend it to the death. Sadly, he will be joined by many northern Catholic free staters who will be willing to kill to defend their newly won position.