English people who support a UI?

[the impossibilist]

Are you sure?

Are you sure you werent saying something...well honest?

Why do shy?

Yes, I'm sure.

It doesn't mean I disavow the sentiments expressed, but I'm making allowances for your lack of common sense and judgement, and you can't stop me . And I don't just mean in music.

I'm very far from shy.

[SevenStars]

Yes, I'm sure.

It doesn't mean I disavow the sentiments expressed, but I'm making allowances for your lack of common sense and judgement, and you can't stop me . And I don't just mean in music.

I'm very far from shy.

Im sure...

Is your class capable of not being patronizing?

Its a cliche because its true...Our day will come.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gA2K03uRF0&feature=player_profilepage"]YouTube - IT IS RIGHT TO REBEL![/ame]

[SevenStars]

angry self ?

ps If you're going to espouse violent revolutionary activity, please don't beat us over the head with Anarcho-Pacifist music video

Thanks

Uh...I believe that song was Crass's rejection of pacifism?

[FutureTaoiseach]

The last poll I saw was many years ago (probably around the time of the GFA) and it showed 40% in the UK favoured a UI, with around 25% opposed. Interestingly, UKIP leader Nigel Farage said he would accept a UI if a majority in NI voted for it (when asked on Newstalk I believe by Karen Coleman on "The Wide Angle). This torpedos the stereotype of UKIP by the "Yes" side.

[jdaly]

The vast majority don't give a toss and couldn't tell the difference between the Republic, the North, Belfast, Dublin, Republican, Loyalist, anything. It really isn't talked about. However, anecdotally, and bearing in mind I grew up in an Irish community in England, I rarely met anyone particularly pro-partition among the English, but did meet a fair few who seemed to think a united Ireland was an ultimate good. But it was always funny hearing about people from unionist backgrounds' reactions to being called 'Paddy'...

Exactly my experience except that I did not grow up there but was working in England. I also found that in the labour party and in the unions, the grass roots mainly believed in a united Ireland and actively encouraged it but as things moved up the hierarchy the demand became muted and finally died or became some kind of little meaning platitude. I had a pal who was a Belfast Protestant and who ended up a Republican when he realised that to the English he was indeed, simply a 'Paddy'.

[marmurr1916]

Yeah I know a memebr of the Tory party over here who feels exactly like that. Its not that he supprots a UI, its just he doesn't want to have to have the exchequer paying for Northern Ireland and doesn't care what happens to it so long as this burden is removed from London. He also isn't to fond of the Union with Scotland and pretty ambivilant towards Wales too. Basically, on reflection he's a nut so I guess his views are not representative.

He may be a nut but in my experience of living in Britain he's probably fairly representative.

Devolution is slowly killing the UK.

A Tory victory at the next general election will help it on its way.

[the impossibilist]

Uh...I believe that song was Crass's rejection of pacifism?

One song is not enough. But here’s Penny Rimbaud from much later…

[FONT=Arial]Crass seemed, at times, to confuse politically and in other ways. Why do you think this was?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Certainly, towards the end we thought, we’ve done the records, the gigs and the label, we had then started directly promoting things like ‘Stop The City’. Where do you go from there? [COLOR=red]Do you start blowing things up?"[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]And do you?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=red]"Well, we looked at all these possibilities but in the end [/COLOR]— and the failure of the miners’ strike helped us realise this — [COLOR=red]you can do a load of direct action but so what? You end up hurting people[/COLOR]. The media prints what it wants even if it can get the information and the system remains intact."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]By this time you were not pacifist, obviously?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]"It started with the Falklands. A lot of people were pacifist when there was nothing to be pacifist about but afterwards we came out of it certainly more dedicated to direct action — such as ‘Stop The City’ and promoting sabotage and violence to property, which many pacifists would disagree with. [COLOR=red]We even considered, then, use of controlled violence,[/COLOR] whatever that is, against people who wouldn’t get out of the way. [COLOR=red]It’s not far from that that you say ‘blast the bastards’ and you lose your own sense of direction[/COLOR]."[/FONT]
[COLOR=blue]http://www.uncarved.org/music/apunk/offbeat.html[/COLOR]
[SIZE=2]　[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Hardly an unequivocal position, would you say ?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Earlier…[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Perry Rimbaud… the hippy movement's influence on Crass.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]http://www.1969histoiresdeparfums.com/blog/tag/pacifism-flower-power/[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]An interesting discussion on class analysis, whether or not Crass perhaps ignored class politics, their pacifist strain as a rejection of glib romanticisation of violence…[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]http://www.southern.com/southern/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1432[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]1979, Crass reject left-wing anti-Fascist violence…[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]http://bashtherichfilm.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/crass-conway-hall-mr-lux/[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE]

1979, the centrality of ''Anarchy and Peace'', in Crass
[COLOR=blue]http://www.swanseapunk.co.uk/page3.html[/COLOR]

[SIZE=2]And let’s not forget that Marx fvcks.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]http://www.songlyrics.com/crass/sucks-lyrics/[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE]


Luckily for us though, you have all the answers.

[toxic avenger]

Off topic, but my favourite Crass noise:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S3cF4h03hw"]YouTube - Crass - Securicor[/ame]

Plus I have the 7 inch original of:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aHFRwGD47M"]YouTube - Crass - Nagasaki Nightmare[/ame]

Now, get back on topic...

[scratchnsniff]

Most of my English friends and relatives don't really give a monkeys, They abhor the Ira and loyalist murderers but they dont confuse them with ordinary people. They don't have a vast knowledge of Ireland or an Interest beyond the odd holiday. The general feeling among them is that if the people of the north want to leave the Union then they will leave.
I never feel anything but welcome in England, only a few people have said "oi paddy" and its always been with a laugh and a one off.
Reading this site, it seems to me we spend far more time thinking about them than they do about us, and if anyone is going to stereotype or insult anyone its more likely to come from our side. However the internet is never a good barometer of a nation.

[Robo]

I cannot find any statistics/polls on English support of a united Ireland. Is it really the case that the vast majority of English people are Unionists, or is there any kind of group in England that advocates a united Ireland?

I doubt there is any support for it or agianst it, general indifference on the issue. There is no UI because Unionists don't want it and westminster wanting not to have a conflect in its back yard..