John Waters attacks atheist.ie as 'puerile reactionaries'

[tmesis2008]

If you think this is the Church's teaching, your opinions are based on ignorance.

The offence comes very easily to a religious person's lips: "Homosexuality is sinful. You are born sick and only accepting the lord can make you well. If you do not agree with these rules you will go to hell...etc."

Oh, yes, Homosexual acts are sinful but homosexuals are to be loved. Sorry. There's a big difference. Riiiighht.

Are we not born with original sin? If I don't accept Jesus and my original sin what will happen to me?

Are you saying that there aren't rules which I can break without regret or confession and still end up in heaven?

[Cato]

By the way, when people spend time considering how to offend my Faith, it is my business.

One can only be offended if one oneself give the insult directed at one the sting. One can always choose to ignore any insult directed at one.

I thought that you Christians were supposed to believe in turning the other cheek or something...

[drkpower]

Do you think in some way that you are intellectually superior to the people who are currently worshipping a tree in Limerick? If so, why?

And do you think it is wrong to make fun of these people?

So, fewer jokes more drkpower? If we didn't try to have a sense of humour or use humour we'd be okay with you?

Tmesis, you miss the whole point of what I was trying to make, sadly.

It is not about whether it is "wrong" to insult people or whether I am intellectually superior or not; it is about how best the aims of atheism/secularism can be achieved. It may feel better to ridicule/make fun of others but it will get you nowhere. So, do you want to actually achieve something? Because if you do, atheism/sercularism actually has a chance to do something positive. But not if it is perceived by many as a negative force.

In this country, religon's stock has rarely been lower. There is an oppurtunity to develop a atheist/secular "movement" to enact real change, to seperate church from state. A powerful well supported lobby would face a much-damaged church and may be succesful. Yet, despite faith in the Church being at an all time low, Atheist Ireland and similar groups remain relatively tiny. Why? Do you ask yourself the question?

But many atheists still only see the short game, the temporary feeling of self satisfaction at insulting/ridiculing another. Meanwhile, who is winning the long game? The religous, the damaged religous who people have lost respect for, thats who. Its their religon in the constitution? Its their laws being presently enacted.

[Toland]

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[White Horse]

Are you saying that there aren't rules which I can break without regret or confession and still end up in heaven?

Many (perhaps most) people die without being is a state of absolute grace. We are taught that the Lord is merciful and I expect that I will need to avail of that mercy when my day comes.

[White Horse]

One can only be offended if one oneself give the insult directed at one the sting. One can always choose to ignore any insult directed at one.

I thought that you Christians were supposed to believe in turning the other cheek or something...

I'm not arguing that I was offended. I was stating that it is "my business" when people seek to offend me.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Tmesis, you miss the whole point of what I was trying to make, sadly.

It is not about whether it is "wrong" to insult people or whether I am intellectually superior or not; it is about how best the aims of atheism/secularism can be achieved. It may feel better to ridicule/make fun of others but it will get you nowhere. So, do you want to actually achieve something? Because if you do, atheism/sercularism actually has a chance to do something positive. But not if it is perceived by many as a negative force.

In this country, religon's stock has rarely been lower. There is an oppurtunity to develop a atheist/secular "movement" to enact real change, to seperate church from state. A powerful well supported lobby would face a much-damaged church and may be succesful. Yet, despite faith in the Church being at an all time low, Atheist Ireland and similar groups remain relatively tiny. Why? Do you ask yourself the question?

But many atheists still only see the short game, the temporary feeling of self satisfaction at insulting/ridiculing another. Meanwhile, who is winning the long game? The religous, the damaged religous who people have lost respect for, thats who. Its their religon in the constitution? Its their laws being presently enacted.

I hear what you are saying and I respect the question. I would answer that christian seem to expect their beliefs to be respected automatically and to an atheist that is the same as giving respect to Scientology.

It would be a mistake for atheists to succumb to a debate where christians get to set the agenda and to determine how the debate should be run.

I have explained why I feel christians are NOT due automatic respect and I do NOT believe they are entitled to any special treatment because of their beliefs.

Atheists have a long way to go before they become as oppressive a figure as Archbishop John McQuaid was.

I have never heard any Atheist say a book should be burnt, a film censored or banned, nor have any atheists turned up at Patrick Kavanagh's door with a guard in tow telling him to 'watch himself' and what he writes.

I refuse to let christians set the rules. We've let them do that for far too long and the results of that are apparent in our society and have been for too long.

There are far too many christians adopting the bewildered 'never touched 'im ref' look when the subject of their church's crimes in Ireland come up. These people are part of the problem and they create a soft landing pad for the extremists among them.

I still haven't seen or heard demands from within the church in any coherent fashion for some truth, confession and penance when those things are readily understandable to the christians and their church and they know damn well they are applicable now.

When christians and the christian churches in Ireland recognise that their area is a 'belief' and not a system of government to which all others must adhere THEN I'll start being more respectful. And not a second sooner.

[Cato]

I'm not arguing that I was offended. I was stating that it is "my business" when people seek to offend me.

I would argue, stoically, that one should avoid allowing insults to play any part in your 'business'.

[Kensington]

This new atheism is getting pretty grating alright. Like all bandwagons, when more people jump on it, the more it shouts but the less it says. I was only a matter of time until the 'Atheist Ireland' group went of the deep-end. This idiotic response to the blasphemy idiocy shows that that time has come. It has turned into an arrogant circle-jerk ... kinda like most religions. I have some news - as i have learned - for my fellow atheists:

1. You know nothing of religion. You know about the same on the subject as a redneck evangelist. You are narrow-minded and clueless on the subject, therefore, easily led. You have as much authority to pontificate on the invalidity of religion as Sarah Palin does of science. Get to know what you are talking about before you arrogantly dismiss it, or your opinion is worth very little.

2. You are offering nothing anyway. it would make no difference whatsoever if Brian Cowen or Enda kenny were atheists. If every asingle Irish person was an atheist in the morning, very little would change. Bar the prayers and weekly mass, you are the same. You offer nothing new, so there is no point in listening to you.

3. Religion is not the problem in the Western World. The problem is unrestrained progress and technological advancement. This is a secular world where morality, what is right, what is wrong, is always in flux. We are destroying the planet. We are leaving millions starve. We are living like zombies, plodding along, aimlessly to repeat the same mistakes over and over again. The fact is, we need religion.

[tmesis2008]

Tmesis, you miss the whole point of what I was trying to make, sadly.

It is not about whether it is "wrong" to insult people or whether I am intellectually superior or not; it is about how best the aims of atheism/secularism can be achieved. It may feel better to ridicule/make fun of others but it will get you nowhere.

I disagree. I think that comedy is a excellent weapon. Comedy, when done well serves to highlight the absurdities of modern life.

Witness:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0]YouTube - That Mitchell and Webb Look: Homeopathic A&E[/ame]

So, do you want to actually achieve something? Because if you do, atheism/sercularism actually has a chance to do something positive. But not if it is perceived by many as a negative force.In this country, religon's stock has rarely been lower. There is an oppurtunity to develop a atheist/secular "movement" to enact real change, to seperate church from state.A powerful well supported lobby would face a much-damaged church and may be succesful. Yet, despite faith in the Church being at an all time low, Atheist Ireland and similar groups remain relatively tiny. Why? Do you ask yourself the question?

You're contradicting yourself here. You're saying atheists should be positive and then you're saying we should use the low stock of theism that pervades currently which is negative way to proceed.

But many atheists still only see the short game, the temporary feeling of self satisfaction at insulting/ridiculing another. Meanwhile, who is winning the long game? The religous, the damaged religous who people have lost respect for, thats who. Its their religon in the constitution? Its their laws being presently enacted.

President calls Council meeting - The Irish Times - Fri, Jul 17, 2009