John Waters caught skipping queue in Fiumicino

[Oppenheimer]

This is a difficult topic to wrap your arms around and I think Waters' first attempt here fails to get the point across.....Irish Society is endemically bad at organising itself, or a Waters puts it, should not organise itself to the level of detail that antagonises our cultural instincts.

Simple examples abound to support our incapability to organise. Queuing for Dublin Buses is a classic. The queue generally, neatly forms and patiently waits the arrival of the bus. Upon its arrival the queue is reduced to an amorphous mass or "speech bubble"-shaped movement to the constriction that is the door. Take a similar case in the UK, Germany, France, but perhaps not Italy, and the comparison is clear. The queues tend to keep their original self-organised shape when the bus arrives and few choose to break that shape.

I believe that this simple example can be expanded to many instances of lack of an ability to organise in our culture. Question is when is it dangerous, i.e., harmful to our society not to organise properly?

[Toland]

_. P .., .S.
. .:............. ....
....:.................._ ....,
............ .............., .:..
....... . . _:........ :..
_...... . .<........ ....
,...... ....... ..._.
_..... ..:...) .....
:.... ..:.... .....
.... _:..... .....
...... .....U..._.
..... _:..... (
O..... ......
:... ) .......
....._ . ...E:..),
.:.... ).... . _.....
..... ,...... .:....
) ..... ...:.._ .....
....... ..:..... ...+,
. :...... )..:...,. ....
.:....... ..+......., _:...
............?. .............. .....
. .......:............,. :...
. :..............) ...
.. I. .. ,D.

[DerekOwens]

I think his point was that we are suffering for a secular form of secular Jansenism with no room for the more charitable outlook that the people had before.

It would be consistent with his disdain for the tribunals and his affection for the likes of Sean Docherty. I think the mistake he makes is that he doesn't distinguish between the powerful and the powerless. To forgive is divine but the children of the world are wiser than the children of the light and holding the powerful to account is essential to the future of this country. It's not about queue jumpers really.

Interesting theory Trad - I think you're right. However charitably meant (he seems to develop a sympathy for figures like Doherty when they're up against it) his outlook is what allows powerful or unscrupulous people to exploit and rob everyone else - whether it's their constitutional rights to privacy (Doherty), money (Haughey) or their place in line (queue jumpers). I don't admire their brass neck in the slightest, and it's a good sign if we've stopped doing it.

[iartaoiseach]

this gobsheen rooted for Bertie. thats all I need to disregard anything he says.

[Toland]

_. P .., .S.
. .:............. ....
....:.................._ ....,
............ .............., .:..
....... . . _:........ :..
_...... . .<........ ....
,...... ....... ..._.
_..... ..:...) .....
:.... ..:.... .....
.... _:..... .....
...... .....U..._.
..... _:..... (
O..... ......
:... ) .......
....._ . ...E:..),
.:.... ).... . _.....
..... ,...... .:....
) ..... ...:.._ .....
....... ..:..... ...+,
. :...... )..:...,. ....
.:....... ..+......., _:...
............?. .............. .....
. .......:............,. :...
. :..............) ...
.. I. .. ,D.

[amblincork]

Interesting theory Trad - I think you're right. However charitably meant (he seems to develop a sympathy for figures like Doherty when they're up against it) his outlook is what allows powerful or unscrupulous people to exploit and rob everyone else - whether it's their constitutional rights to privacy (Doherty), money (Haughey) or their place in line (queue jumpers). I don't admire their brass neck in the slightest, and it's a good sign if we've stopped doing it.

Did not O Doherty find Jesus ?

[Mar Tweedy]

Possibly the reason why the IT doesn't publish all letters it receives about JW is because they get so many of them.

Valley of the squinting souls - that's his vision for us.

[Oppenheimer]

If that's his point, he fails so olympically to get it across that no trace of what you say can be found in the article.

You sure you're not reading too much into it?

I think he is actually voicing the case for not needing to organise, i.e., its ok to be as laissez-faire as we are when it comes to this element of our society. I think to some extent it is but there is a limit and we need to understand this limit.

I think my extension of the point is what you consider to be me reading too much into it. As I started out, it is, in my opinion a difficult thing to qualify and be articulate about, but nevertheless something to consider and try to understand its effects.

[macdarawhitfield]

Political correctness running amok and nobody lifting a finger to stop it.After me comrades: 'I am John Waters.'

'No ,I am John Waters!'

[oceanclub]

The only thing more incoherent than Waters on paper is Waters in the flesh. A prepared and sober Waters was trounced by an unprepared (hadn't been told the "debate" consisted of first presenting a 10 minute opening statement) and well-oiled Christopher Hitchens at a debate on religion in the Gate Theatre a few years back.

P.