'Ireland is working intensively on ratifying the treaty and we support their efforts,

[He3]

'Ireland is working intensively on ratifying the treaty and we support their efforts,' says Germany's Chancellor Merkel.

RTÉ News: Merkel confident over Lisbon Treaty

We should be grateful to the media at times like this.

Yesterday the Dáil heard complaints from opposition TDs that the Dáil was being kept in the dark about what the Taoiseach was saying to other governments about Lisbon. RTÉ tells us how Angela Merkel describes what our government is doing.

Has any government member admitted in public that the government is working on 'ratifying the treaty'. Most of the statements reported in the Irish media claim that they are trying to 'address the concerns' of Irish voters, by seeking binding changes of some kind to the treaty whose ratification we rejected on June 12.

Instant communications pose a challenge for the two-faced public representative. There is a thread on how our Minister for Europe Roche says one thing to the Czech media, and the opposite to his employers, the Irish people.

Is this another case where we owe a debt to the media for reporting back to us what other governments say is actually going on behind closed doors?

Saying that we all know this is what our government is doing is no answer. What they say they are doing is respecting our vote and seeking various binding changes to the treaty we voted against. If Merkel is accurate, what they are doing is working to circumvent that vote.

...

Link to Roche thread - http://www.politics.ie/media/38072-d...lays-away.html

[Clanrickard]

Ireland has rejected the Treaty. Someone tell the frumpiest female politician on the planet about referenda.

[Almanac]

'Ireland is working intensively on ratifying the treaty and we support their efforts,' says Germany's Chancellor Merkel.

RTÉ News: Merkel confident over Lisbon Treaty

We should be grateful to the media at times like this.

Yesterday the Dáil heard complaints from opposition TDs that the Dáil was being kept in the dark about what the Taoiseach was saying to other governments about Lisbon. RTÉ tells us how Angela Merkel describes what our government is doing.

Has any government member admitted in public that the government is working on 'ratifying the treaty'. Most of the statements reported in the Irish media claim that they are trying to 'address the concerns' of Irish voters, by seeking binding changes of some kind to the treaty whose ratification we rejected on June 12.

Instant communications pose a challenge for the two-faced public representative. There is a thread on how our Minister for Europe Roche says one thing to the Czech media, and the opposite to his employers, the Irish people.

Is this another case where we owe a debt to the media for reporting back to us what other governments say is actually going on behind closed doors?

Saying that we all know this is what our government is doing is no answer. What they say they are doing is respecting our vote and seeking various binding changes to the treaty we voted against. If Merkel is accurate, what they are doing is working to circumvent that vote.

...

Link to Roche thread - http://www.politics.ie/media/38072-d...lays-away.html

A disgusting deception as you have pointed out He. This is the kind of deceitful and two-faced politics that we have come to expect from our government, who have proven themselves to be true Eurocrats. Their first loyalty is to Brussels. What Eurocritics have said all along has proven to be absolutely true and accurate. All the nonsense about respecting the vote and listening to the voters was simply a pack of filthy lies used to cloak an already determined strategy of using whatever possible means to circumvent the will of the electorate. Cowen and co will pay dearly for attempting to deceive the electorate.

[Aindriu]

Ireland has rejected the Treaty. Someone tell the frumpiest female politician on the planet about referenda.

And tell her the meaning of the word democracy while they are at it.

[He3]

...What she said is simply gold dust for the no people.

This kind of gold dust I would prefer not to have.

What is the weather like in Berlin today?

[FutureTaoiseach]

Haven't you heard? These aren't Ireland's men/women in Brussels - they're Brussels' men/women in Ireland. They report to them, like good little boys and girls. Why would they report to us?

[setanta]

AggSec is right ... It never ceases to amaze me how the europhobes on this site are able to feign so much shock, horror and surprise at what we already know to be the case, i.e. that the government is looking for ways in which the concerns of the Irish people vis-a-vis Lisbon can be reconciled with the decisions of the other members states to proceed with their own ratifications

Don't give me this bullplop that you are only now becoming aware that the government is in discussions with our European partners about what the irish people will need in order to support teh Lisbon Treaty in a second referendum. Or is feigned shock all you have left now that the dishonest arguments and lies of the NO side have been exposed.

[constitutionus]

anyone tell micheal martin yet ?

EDIT. must admit though, i am getting pissed off with the government talking to everyone else about this except the people who pay his wages. was indeed great fun to see dick get caught out by the czech media.

[FutureTaoiseach]

AggSec is right ... It never ceases to amaze me how the europhobes on this site are able to feign so much shock, horror and surprise at what we already know to be the case, i.e. that the government is looking for ways in which the concerns of the Irish people vis-a-vis Lisbon can be reconciled with the decisions of the other members states to proceed with their own ratifications

Don't give me this bullplop that you are only now becoming aware that the government is in discussions with our European partners about what the irish people will need in order to support teh Lisbon Treaty in a second referendum. Or is feigned shock all you have left now that the dishonest arguments and lies of the NO side have been exposed.

First of all we are mostly not Europhobes. If I was I wouldn't have voted yes in the previous 3 EU referendums. It's just that we don't accept that to be pro-European, you have to be a compliant European. You obviously disagree. In negotiations, the sides that hang-tough get better terms, which is one reason we were right to vote no. Only following the no vote do you hear changes such as keeping our Commissioner and declarations on neutrality, tax and abortion being discussed - these were not on offer prior to the no vote, which proves my point. I have repeatedly stated the terms under which I could be persuaded to vote yes, and they include a Protocol opting us out of the Charter of Fundamental Rights. Is Poland a Europhobic country because they have such a Protocol? Are people who vote against constitutional amendments in Ireland anti-Irish? Because that is the parallel in national terms to the exercise of changes to the EU treaties and voting no there. You people need to stop equating the wishes of 5,000 European politicians with those of what you call "Europe". I think you'll find there are a lot more than 5,000 people in Europe and who are being denied a say in the creation of what will be - in all but name - a European superstate. That is not just a slogan - it is a literal fact. When you have other states being able to foist laws on you by a voting system that gives bigger states more say than small ones, and where you have an Cabinet/executive you will only have someone on 10 out of 15 years, with a central bank, common currency, battlegroups, federal courts (called specialised courts in Lisbon), and a Supreme Court that has the final say on matters of human rights which will override the constitution (which the ECHR does not), then how is that different from a Federal State? And before you mention the lack of a unified tax-system, I would remind you that the US Federal income-tax only came into force many generations after that country was founded.

[setanta]

anyone tell micheal martin yet ?

EDIT. must admit though, i am getting pissed off with the government talking to everyone else about this except the people who pay his wages. was indeed great fun to see dick get caught out by the czech media.

The Oireachtas sub-commitee on Ireland's future in Europe has spent the last two months hearing an extansive range of witnesses on Europe and the Lisbon Treaty. They've listened to academics, business, the social partners ... hell, they've even let Moneybags Ganners in the door as well as the headbangers from Cóir. And ministers and opposition spokespersons have been on TV and radio and have been extensively engaged in the press discussing the issues that arise from the Lisbon Treaty referendum.

Assuming that you are already aware of these things, then what are you whinging about? Or do you expect a gilt-edged invitation to Government Bildings for you and yours before you will concede that the government has indeed been talking to many more of "the people who pay [their] wages" than you could ever hope to reach?