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  1. #21
    brughahaha brughahaha is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Filibuster View Post
    The truth in that could easily be somewhere between several facts.
    That doesn't mean the Russians aren't stoking.

    You've a centuries old history of tensions between Catalonia and Spain.
    You've a massive economic crisis in Spain that is only beginning to be resolved.
    The economic crisis was mishandled by the Spanish government in the first place, they had huge issues around bank regulation, proximity of government to the causes of the mess etc
    Then you've the EU which handled the EU financial crisis very poorly and wasn't able to get beyond German and others' national interests and narrow dogmatic notions about public expenditure. Very limited solidarity was shown by other EU members. When push came to shove, it shows you're really on your own and many members are only good time friends who will abandon you and mock you in a crisis.
    The EU equally proved to be incapable of dealing with national governments pulling stunts like Greece did when it joined the Euro with massaged figures

    The EU proved to be fairly spineless against anything that national governments do, even if it's very damaging to the union.

    The along comes a whole raft of political actors looking for cracks to drive wedges into. They've found plenty of them in the US and the EU is full of them too.
    Welcome to your future ....one that will be secondary to German National interest

    We disagree ...The EU is morphing into a supranational (German Run ) government ...with all the trappings of huge power but none of the accountability, not even to its member states.

    This is but another piece of the jigsaw , an agency for propaganda , not for national states (which the EU hierarchy wish to end ) but for itself , for its own ends and to counter any dissent ...Some like you are OK with this ...Im certainly not
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  2. #22
    brughahaha brughahaha is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Filibuster View Post
    The main thing they should do is simply improve the way they present information and I mean that in a mechanical sense.
    Tidy up the the language issues by using professional editors who are used to writing and editing good copy.

    Actually use channels of communication like social media and don’t just use them to link dull, technical press releases.

    I’ll give you an example of typical EU communication.

    I’m on a number of European Parliament and Commissions email lists as I was doing some university research. These are just public listens and anyone can join.

    On a particular day every week someone presses “send” and they fire out literally hundreds of emails with dense press releases. The volume is so huge and the way they are presented is so confusing that you would just react wirh OMFG stop!!

    I’ve often had my phone going ping, pong, ping, ping as literally hundreds of documents are sent out simultaneously.

    I understand how it happens too. An office works its way through press releases and then they go through some kind of editing and sign off process, they're translated and some administrator just sends them out in bulk like as if they are using a 1980s fax machine or sending letters.

    They seem to take no account of who they're trying to talk to or what deadlines press might have and they make no attempt to digest the information or draw your attention to important facts.

    You could have some extremely important release about an upcoming change to something very relevant to Ireland and it's just treated as if it's as relevant as a document on the standardisation of adhesives for floor coverings in airport toilets.

    I don't think it's intentional but it comes across to media like as if they're trying to bury things and also they send out confusing technical documents that end up being interpreted arseways by some tabloids.

    Also this thing of quoting random people who aren't spokespeople as "Brussels says" and you then read down the article and discover that the statement actually came from an MEP representing seem obscure party with a weird agenda.
    That AGAIN , despite your repeated posts ...is not the purpose of this agency .....

    The purpose of this agency is political propaganda

    It is described as "The European Union’s counter-propaganda unit" in the Guardian which is pro EU

    You are being highly disingenuous now
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  3. #23
    Filibuster Filibuster is offline

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    To be honest, I don't think the EU will manage to "tackle fake news". It isn't capable of doing that as it simply was never designed to have a communication role. It has always really been more of an intergovernmental body, so the individual states interpreted it.

    I just see the EU being likely to tie itself in more knots trying to fix this when they should be concentrating on making existing communication much more clear and concise.

    They are regularly misrepresented but it’s because they have never had any real voice to begin with.

    I just see this evolving into a convoluted mess and, when you start involving people and states with limited democratic histories and flawed / low rated press freedoms and then throw in technocratic agencies who see communication as something they read in some books, it is a major risk.

    Aspects of the EU also know that it has all these issues and they've been highlighted over and over for decades and they've never been addressed.

    I’m not being disingenuous - I just think the EU has genuinely horrible communications and if it attempts to "fix" them to radically it will dig a massive hole / score own goals anyway.

    What they're trying to do is risky and needs to be monitored very closely as if could end up being a totally ridiculous mess. I am highly sceptical about the whole thing.

    It's a bit like asking someone tone deaf to tune a piano.

    I don't buy into the agenda that the EU is some kind of evil empire though. It’s as good / bad as any aspect of government and need to be seen in that context. The main thing it needs is to practice what it preaches on democracy, transparency and accountability. It’s all very well having all sorts of high notions if you actually live up to them.
    Last edited by Filibuster; 14th November 2017 at 12:05 PM.
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  4. #24
    bormotello bormotello is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    Very good post. Worked with the Commission people for a year and found the same. I think their heart is in the right place but the technical nature of their documents and press releases allows for accusations of Orwelism and is grist to the mill of the Farages of this world. The EU certainly needs to combat fake news as it is a problem . WE cannot allow a nasty dictatorship like Russia to unbalance political discourse for its own nefarious ends.
    LOL

    Nobody would care about fakenews, if people could trust to Western media and ‘liberal journalism’ wouldn’t become synonym of ‘early stages of schizophrenia’. Great Chinese FireWall might work in China, but not in Western countries where freedom of speech and access to information were always presented to public as advantages. I’ve seen something similar during agony of USSR, but even then moaning about ‘CIA inspired fakenews’ couldn’t stop distrust to Soviet media. Gorbachev ‘glasnost’ came too late to change anything. It looks like EU is following the same way, without realizing that ‘forbidden fruit is the sweetest’ and more they will try to stop exchange of information, more harder collapse will be. 
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  5. #25
    pumpkinpie pumpkinpie is online now

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    People would do well to remember what happened in Europe the last time Germany decided that they should be in charge.
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  6. #26
    Mick Mac Mick Mac is offline

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    Wouldn't they be more in line to allowing glyphosate aka round up be banned .

    Fake news will become anything that doesn't tie in with keeping Europe na great place to do business in.
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  7. #27
    Mick Mac Mick Mac is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by pumpkinpie View Post
    People would do well to remember what happened in Europe the last time Germany decided that they should be in charge.
    They left in 1-2 million people without discussion and then relied on a sordid deal with a far right government to try stem the influx?
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  8. #28
    blokesbloke blokesbloke is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddycomeback View Post
    The direction of travel is obvious. Registration will be required for social media.
    The Establishment want to shut down discourse, now they realise people have got a mind of their own, and not completely brainwashed by MSM.
    Meanwhile the march to war goes on.
    This won't end well. I hope we can stay neutral.
    Not possible if it becomes EU law.
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  9. #29
    willow68 willow68 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumpkinpie View Post
    People would do well to remember what happened in Europe the last time Germany decided that they should be in charge.
    The latest nail in the coffin of freedom is PESCO - permanent structured cooperation. I'd laugh if it wasn't so tragic. And the Germans have recently acquired a nigh on million strong fighting age soldiery crowd. Sure what could possibly go wrong under the sane leadership of the new gröfaz - if she can get her coalition spanning the rainbow of political colours off the ground.
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  10. #30
    razorblade razorblade is offline

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    History suggests what the outcome is when empires get too much power well its never good.
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