Ireland's inequality and taxes on Vincent Browne

[irish_bob]

And what political party was elected without my knowledge on the pledge to raise taxes on working people to keep welfarites equitably comfortable and the public sector the best compensated in Eu? Vincent Browne should run for election with his policies and see what the vast majority of Irish people think of them

thats the trouble with lefties , despite having no mandate , they think its fine to tell us all how we should be living , the odious ciaran allen who has never been elected to do more than sing at an xmas party is regulary on tv and radio calling on the state to confiscate private wealth on a mass scale and to slap a 70% tax rate on those earning over 70 k per year


vincent browne has as much understanding of economics as my pet goldfish , his level of stupidity is quite extrordinary

[clairec]

The European Income Tax rates mentioned in VB last night (11 Nov) don't include insurance and other rates.

Possibly because in other countries social insurance is actually that and not just another tax like it is here. Other countries provide benefits that are related to your pay not capped at 204 euro per week.

Self employed already pay unlimited PRSI and soon employees will to yet their is a very low cap on benefits and they are actually the same as you get on means tested benefits if you have never paid a penny into the system in your life.

It is just an income tax here

[goosebump]

The European Income Tax rates mentioned in VB last night (11 Nov) don't include insurance and other rates.

In Germany, the income tax rate on income up to 250k is 42%. Here, it is 44%.

Furthermore, all social contributions (other than mandatory health insurance) are paid by employers in Germany, whereas here, a person earning €250k will pay an extra 9% PRSI and Health Levy, in addition to what their employer pays.

Equally, a person earning €10k per annum in Germany will pay 14% income tax, whereas here, they will pay €0.

The idea that our income tax regime is vastly more lenient on high earners than in other EU states is not borne our by facts.

[Foghorn]

A lot of this is myth.

Our waiting lists have improved dramatically in recent years.
Our rail service is actually well-resourced; the problems with efficiency arise from the union apparatchiks who run it.
Ditto our bus service.
And the problems that arise in relation to criminal justice are constitutional, not resource driven.

Our waiting lists may have improved but there is no comparison between those in Ireland and those of the UK. They are chalk and cheese. The whole process is inefficient. A patient usually won't even have a date for their next appointment when they leave the doctors surgery. The process is slow, bureaucratic amd inefficient. Until recently there wasn't even a breast screening service in most of the country - and the number of women that die from breast cancer every year. The Labour Party in the UK have driven down waiting lists and rates of infection to levels well below anything in Ireland. And what's more people are still not satisfied here. The UK Govt is even going to make it a legal right to free private healthcare if a patient cannot get seen within 18 weeks. Patients 'to get legal right to free private health care on NHS' - Telegraph

There is no doubt that the Irish Rail network is well resourced. Too well resourced for the service it provides. It must now we faster to travel from East to West in Ireland by car than by train. Our rail network goes nowhere and goes nowhere fast. Rail is one of the biggest missed opportunity in Ireland. Look at all the problems that could have been solved socially, economically, environmentally and effectively if we had a good rail network. We are a small country and still today you cannot get a train from many places in the country to many other places. There is no way that the service is comparable to any half-decent service in other countries.

And don't get me started on the bus services. Bus Eireann published their Galway routes on the web recently. Every bus in Galway goes through Eyre Square. No buses go over, or have ever gone over, the only main high-capacity bridge that has been in the city for 25 years. Some of the biggest housing estates in Galway have no, absolutely no, bus services. The routes chosen may the service impractical as no driver would take such a route because it would take so long to get to and from work. It is based right around the Unions and the people who work in the service. There is no comprehension of customer service.

This position that you'd pay more tax if the country was better run is garbage. If everyone took that attitude, we wouldn't have a country.

Would you stand on a platform before a crowd of countrymen and countrywomen telling them that they need to pay more tax and in return you will give them nothing?

It is not that that I would "pay more tax if the country was better run is garbage". I would "pay more tax" to have "the country was better run".

Would you run a business in such a manner that when times are lean and the rubbish customer service that you provide, that made you wealthy when times were good, means that when business falls off you increase your charges? The businesslike thing to do is rationalise, improve service and efficiency. Why would you want your customers to pay more for a service that they do not get anyway?

And on another point, if taxes are not linked to service then how to we know that what we have been paying already isn't too much?

I do understand your point about the need for financial liquidity but there is no evidence that just by increasing taxes alone we are assured of Value-For-Money and that the actions that should otherwise be taken in consolidating positions, and implementing change.

Our income tax rates were too low in the past, but our marginal rate is now 54%, and up to 60% when you count the raised PRSI ceiling and health levy, which is higher than in most of the countries that VB mentions.

The problem is the vast swathes of people who work but pay zero income tax. Even a token contribution from these people would make a big impact on the public finances.

Who are the "vast swathes of people who work but pay zero income tax"? Obviously there are criminals who don't pay taxes but I wouldn't refer to them as the "vast swathes of people" so it can't be them. If you are a PAYE worker there is pretty much no room for negotiation on the matter of taxation.

Overall - I don't think it is unreasonable that those who pay tax are assured of some outcomes for their additional contributions.

[irish_bob]

We have a country full of commies , envious begrudgers and claptrap dangerous altruists in government.People who work hard ,earn more should not have the bollocks tax off them.These are the people that create employment and investment ,put people want to tax the balls of these people so a wastful bunch of parasites in government can redistributed it in a another wasteful manner buying votes and creating a lazy begrudging society.I hope that some of these people thay are going to tax the balls off can move to another country to preserve what ever bit of wealth they have.Nobody deserves another persons hard earned loot ,if you or I did it we would be jailed for robbery.

our probelem is our media which is overwhelmingly left wing , gives theese lefties ( who represent a relativley small section of public opinion ) a grossly disproportionate level of airtime

fergus ( the most tedious man in ireland ) finlay is never off the radio , he was on again on radio one blathering on about how any cut in social wellfare will result in people going hungary , makes you wonder does this idiot ever venture out to the sink estates all over dublin , he would do well to ask the local off licences or bookies , how business is doing theese days

[Clanrickard]

. It is based right around the Unions and the people who work in the service. There is no comprehension of customer service.

That was goosebump's point. Why pay more taxes to line the pockets of de unionz when there will be no effort at reform?

[Andrew49]

vincent browne has as much understanding of economics as my pet goldfish , his level of stupidity is quite extrordinary

You have a 'quite extraordinary stupid goldfish' ?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEQK4HbifTo"]YouTube- What can't remember anything? - Qi - BBC[/ame]

IT IS time for the scales to fall from our eyes: scientists have claimed not only that goldfish have a memory span of up to three months, but that they can also tell the time. The fish, previously believed to have a memory of just a few seconds, can distinguish between different times of day and can also be taught to follow a routine, according to research. Scientists at Plymouth University have successfully trained the fish to collect food at particular times of day, showing the popular notion of the three-second memory to be very fishy indeed. The findings add to a growing body of evidence that fish are much more sentient and intelligent than had generally been assumed. Recent research has suggested that fish feel pain when they are caught on a hook, can be manipulative and socially aware, have long memories and are able to recognise their shoal-mates.

[hurling_lad]

If people want us to increase our tax take as a proportion of income to the same level as Germany, I can't see how they can reject increasing the tax base by taxing those on lower incomes - the tax-free threshold in Germany is below €8,000 while it is €15,028 (and that's just the 2% income levy - it's €18,300 before income tax kicks in) in Ireland.

If we were to cut our tax free thresholds to similar levels, I'm sure you'd see our tax take as % of GDP/GNP/whatever increase by quite a few points and we would be more like Germany and all the other countries VB mentioned last night.

[irish_bob]

+1

Berties vote buying policies have proved an absolute disaster.

But this thread shows the left in this country for the idiots they are. Even after Bertie tripled the dole, took 40% out of the tax net, tripled the pension, increased child benefit & gave away countless houses to the 'needy', we are still hearing about how the 'rich' aren't doing enough or how we should throw away our only competitive advantage - low corporation tax.

It is a fkn farce.

And the 40% that are paying nothing aren't paid 'too little' - the minimum wage is the 6th highest in Europe.

the so called needy dont know how good they have it in this country , this country is redicolously left wing

[irish_bob]

You do start paying tax in Germany at a far lower rate than in Ireland but Germany has a properly functioning health service, first-class transport infrastructure and schools that are not third world prefab huts. We chose the illusion of lower taxes and got rubbish public services. But VAT in Germany is still lower by 2.5% than in Ireland.

germany doesnt spend all its health expendeture paying its nurses 50 k per year on average and their consultants 220 k per year