Private polling and focus groups indicate Lisbon 2 may be lost: Sunday Times

[kerrynorth]

I'm surprised KN that a poster such as you would so umambiguously misrepresent the article.

He did not state that private polling and focus group research showed the public mood had turned against Lisbon and that Yes propronents now believe it may be lost.

What he said that that he "detected" (in other words thought without seeing any evidence) that "among proponents" (in other words, among some people on the yes side) there was fear "based on some limited private polling and focus groups".

First of all I was picking out an interesting bit of information from the article and not commenting on the entire article. Secondly, he does state that he has himself detected a change in public mood. And that this mood among Yes proponents that the referendum may be lost is "based" upon private polling and focus group research. So he was not pulling it out of the air - he was commenting on polling/research that he has become aware of.

[bogtrotter]

I have already made my decision on the lisbon treaty, I voted NO.....Nothing has changed...

[juanpablo]

There are narrower political issues as well. Lose the vote and Brian Cowen’s time as taoiseach will be up.

This is why i'm considering voting no (voted yes last time like a good European). I want these clowns out of Government, my parochialism comes first i'm afraid.

[He3]

It's a pretty obvious typo as the next paragraph makes clear he was referring to the fact that we're being asked to vote on exactly the same treaty.

Nice try though

You may be right but it is not obvious at all imho. He makes two distinct claims:

The biggest problem for the Yes side is that the public is being asked to vote on exactly the same referendum as last time.

While the government has secured clarifications from the EU on the issues it believes were the subject of most debate and confusion a year ago, the fact remains that the treaty itself has not been altered.

[lostexpectation]

sunday times is first paper murdoch wants to makes us pay for ...

[seanmacc]

I love these threads. A brand new Lisbon thread where we discuss slightly the new aspect the thread starter informs us of and it then descends into the same old arguments we've had for months. By tomorrow this thread will be exactly the same as the other hundred or so on this site. But we do love a fresh clean slate to argue on.

[Malbekh]

I'm surprised KN that a poster such as you would so umambiguously misrepresent the article.

He did not state that private polling and focus group research showed the public mood had turned against Lisbon and that Yes propronents now believe it may be lost.

What he said that that he "detected" (in other words thought without seeing any evidence) that "among proponents" (in other words, among some people on the yes side) there was fear "based on some limited private polling and focus groups".

He also wrote

"Victory might fall into the lap of the side that tells its own lies most convincingly or which manages to scare the voters more. Or winning may come down to whichever side is able to better argue that our economic position will be improved more — or damaged less — by voting their way. On that score, the Yes side currently appears to have the advantage."

So the article suggests things quite different to the misleading spin you put on it.

Future Taoiseach and Eurosceptic continually wildly misrepresent things and tell lies about the meanings of things. Please don't fall to their level of twisting facts.

Oh and BTW as you know the Sunday Times is hardly a trusted source of information, given that it was the only newspaper that ordered staff to write opinion pieces on only one side of the argument and refused to publish articles from staff giving a different view. Every other paper carried pieces by staffers, freelancers and others giving both sides. The ST refused to, something which, as a former ST contributor, I was disappointed by. In all my years of journalism I never was instructed by any paper on what to write, and would have refused if so instructed. I was disappointed that my colleagues in the Sunday Times were so instructed, and so were many of them, including people who were No supporters but who nevertheless thought it wrong to silence people who do not share the editorial line of the paper from giving their own opinions.

KN doesn't have an anti-Lisbon agenda, however I agree that the Sunday Times has. This in itself is no bad thing as at the very least it counters the sheer weight the pro-Lisbon side have in terms of advocacy.

[lapsedmethodist]

I have already made my decision on the lisbon treaty, I voted NO.....Nothing has changed...

And then what? If there's a second NO?

[bogtrotter]

And then what? If there's a second NO?

Accept the will of the people.....

[evercloserunion]

According to Matt Cooper in tomorrow's Sunday Times private polling and focus group research in recent weeks indicate that the public mood has turned against Lisbon and that Yes proponents now believe that it may be lost contrary to recent public polls.

Matt Cooper: Ganley’s departure will boost Yes side - Times Online

It may be lost? A bit early no?