Is the anti-treaty Left patsies for the Right?

[Defeated Romanticist]

I cannot fathom a mature, pragmatic and sober reason for anyone left of centre to oppose the European project. Underpinning it is at a fundamental level, the social democratic ideal of government as the key role in the economy any society. It is by any measure, far beyond a mere free trade area and was founded when free trade was a preserve of the left. At the core of left wing Euro-skepticism appears to be an unwillingness to accept anything other than a Marxist Europe and an esoteric quibbling about incidentals. This differs from most brands of Euro-scepticism on the Conservative right and the nationalistic right and left. They disagree with the substance of the European project rather than what is not in it. Given current and future democratic politics the substantive result of successful Left opposition to the European project is to advance to cause of the right. Therefore it seems utterly stupid for the left to oppose European treaties.

Do they even realise this?

[scrawledincrayon]

I cannot fathom a mature, pragmatic and sober reason for anyone left of centre to oppose the European project.

Then the problem is your lack of imagination.

You will find that across most of Europe, opposition to the EU or to significant aspects of the EU comes primarily from the left rather than from the right. The French and Dutch campaigns against the EU Constitution were mostly composed of left wing organisations, just as in Ireland the large bulk of campaigners against Nice, Lisbon etc were, despite the fixation of the media with right wing mavericks like Justin Barrett or Declan Ganley, also from the left or from a a Republican background.

The EU project enshrines "the market" at the heart of European politics. If you don't think that the market should be given such a position then you are of course going to have a major problem with the EU. There are of course right wingers who oppose the EU or aspects of the EU for other reasons, nationalism for instance or a belief that the version of a market economy pushed by the Eu should be even redder in tooth and claw. Such people dominate opposition to EU treaties in Britain. But in Ireland, the right, from the main political parties to IBEC are almost unanimously pro-EU.

[Oldira1]

I cannot fathom a mature, pragmatic and sober reason for anyone left of centre to oppose the European project. Underpinning it is at a fundamental level, the social democratic ideal of government as the key role in the economy any society. It is by any measure, far beyond a mere free trade area and was founded when free trade was a preserve of the left. At the core of left wing Euro-skepticism appears to be an unwillingness to accept anything other than a Marxist Europe and an esoteric quibbling about incidentals. This differs from most brands of Euro-scepticism on the Conservative right and the nationalistic right and left. They disagree with the substance of the European project rather than what is not in it. Given current and future democratic politics the substantive result of successful Left opposition to the European project is to advance to cause of the right. Therefore it seems utterly stupid for the left to oppose European treaties.

Do they even realise this?

Those two words my friend are at the heart of my objection to Lisbon. Why the need for a European Project? What is wrong with a common trading area like we had previously? Not to be glib but Hitler had a European Project too which was a Europe dominated by Germany. Just because his heirs are (so far) peaceful and quasi-democratic does not mean they do not share the same aims.
European Project,Resettlement, final solution. Benign sounding words but with sinister overtones.

[Free to Prosper]

Brian Lenihan has said that at mass immigration from Eastern Europe helped facilitate a property bubble and overheated economy?

ce. The Treaty of Nice facilitated this mass movement of workers from Eastern EUrope?


Lisbon copperfastens Euro Court of Justice judgements such as Laval and Ruffert in which native workers get absolutely wasted to the benefit of multi-national capital.

YOu may notice in today's irish Times:

DO you seriously think that any of these Irish workers who lost their job because of job displacement to cheaper Eastern European labour will vote Yes to Lisbon, and the European Court of Justice which gave us the Laval judgement etc ?

I suspect they will all vote NO. The left will be voting no, indeed anybody with their job and welfare in mind.

Irish Times Friday, July 10, 2009

Firm hires migrant workers to 'keep manners on Paddies'

A COMPANY involved in a bitter industrial relations dispute in Co Tipperary is hiring migrant workers because the owner claims they are more efficient and less likely to be absent than Irish workers.

Martin Sheahan, owner of waste-disposal company Mr Binman, has infuriated members of the Siptu trade union by claiming that: “The Paddy is the best man in the world when he goes abroad to work but he’s a different man at home.” He made the comments during a recent interview with the Irish Farmer’s Journal.

He told The Irish Times yesterday that he stood over the “fair comment” and confirmed that he had “hired non-nationals to keep manners on the Paddies”.

A group of Mr Binman workers, who have been on strike for more than seven weeks, held a street protest and march yesterday morning in Carrick-on-Suir. They claim that they are being forced to take “drastic” pay cuts of up to 49 per cent and work longer hours.

[ibis]

Those two words my friend are at the heart of my objection to Lisbon. Why the need for a European Project? What is wrong with a common trading area like we had previously? Not to be glib but Hitler had a European Project too which was a Europe dominated by Germany. Just because his heirs are (so far) peaceful and quasi-democratic does not mean they do not share the same aims.
European Project,Resettlement, final solution. Benign sounding words but with sinister overtones.

The common market is a result of the "European project", not, as everyone here seems to think, its predecessor. The project has always been political - the common market was created for political reasons, as part of the "ever closer union" (something you left off your list of sinister phrases).