Lisbon 2 - how will you vote?

[molloyjh]

I didn't mention you at all, did I?

Jeez, talk about self centered!

I am neither a politician or the Yes side. You wanted to talk about twisting the truth and BS buzz words used by the Yes side. I was trying to make the point that just because some on the Yes side do do that there's precious little point in saying it to me as I don't. Which is why I said in a previous post to fire ahead with examples if they are of me. There's f*k all point telling me what other people said when I have as little time for them as you do.

[europeasone]

The democratic vote of the Irish electorate must be respected, It's a defeated argument when all you say it is crap,It's People like you that will win this again for the no side,The Irish electorate is just as well able to make up their minds as anyone else in Europe without putting a slur on our intelligence,

I agree, the democratic vote must be respected in the same way that the progress of a federal Europe must be respected. The so called "slur on the intelligence of Irish people" was probably referring to the inability of the Irish public to understand the Treaty of Lisbon and the economic importance to Ireland of being fully integrated to a federal Europe.

[myksav]

I agree, the democratic vote must be respected in the same way that the progress of a federal Europe must be respected. The so called "slur on the intelligence of Irish people" was probably referring to the inability of the Irish public to understand the Treaty of Lisbon and the economic importance to Ireland of being fully integrated to a federal Europe.

Then, I guess the rest of the peoples of Europe also fall into that "lack of intelligence" bracket as no one else seems to 'understand the Treaty of Lisbon' either. Including the politicians supposed to have been involved in drafting that Treaty. If they did understand the Treaty, they would have no problems in explaining it to the general population. They've had over a year and a half to do so and have still failed to do so.

[turdsl]

Ibelieve the inability of the yes side to explain the treaty was proved the other night after making several speeches trying to dominate the whole show Dukes had to be told to shut up,I see F.G are dropping Mitchell from the front line this time after his failure last June, So mush for F.G intellectuals

[europeasone]

Then, I guess the rest of the peoples of Europe also fall into that "lack of intelligence" bracket as no one else seems to 'understand the Treaty of Lisbon' either. Including the politicians supposed to have been involved in drafting that Treaty. If they did understand the Treaty, they would have no problems in explaining it to the general population. They've had over a year and a half to do so and have still failed to do so.

It's quite simple really. The treaty, in simple terms, enables further progress for the implementation of a Federal Europe by shifting decision making from local government to a central (European) government (Article 48). Everything in between is just stalling the inevitable and making Ireland and the Irish people look very ignorant to our European counterparts. What the Irish people fail to understand is, without Europe, Ireland is economically devastated and will eventually return us to the poverty not seen here since the 50's. Its time to except change. Its time for Ireland to realise that we need Europe. The Treaty of Lisbon will be brought into force, one way or the other - eventually. So lets stop disrupting European progress and get on board - every other European member has or will ratified/ratify, what gives Ireland the right to hold things up for other members, just because we don't understand what the treaty means!

[CookieMonster]

Can people please stop replying to europeasone? It's quite obviously a troll.

[europeasone]

Can people please stop replying to europeasone? It's quite obviously a troll.

CookieMonster, calling me a troll on a public forum because you disagree with my posts is one thing. However, requesting that other forum members ignore my posts because of same reason is going that little bit too far. If you dislike or do not agree with my posts, then you do not have to read or reply to them, but please don't single me out to this extent - I bet, if this was a schoolyard, you'd be the bully! - but its not, so don't.

[turdsl]

It's quite simple really. The treaty, in simple terms, enables further progress for the implementation of a Federal Europe by shifting decision making from local government to a central (European) government (Article 48). Everything in between is just stalling the inevitable and making Ireland and the Irish people look very ignorant to our European counterparts. What the Irish people fail to understand is, without Europe, Ireland is economically devastated and will eventually return us to the poverty not seen here since the 50's. Its time to except change. Its time for Ireland to realise that we need Europe. The Treaty of Lisbon will be brought into force, one way or the other - eventually. So lets stop disrupting European progress and get on board - every other European member has or will ratified/ratify, what gives Ireland the right to hold things up for other members, just because we don't understand what the treaty means!

I do not believe you are stupid.whatever the rights of Ireland, It was the EU that drew up the rules, if they are not able to abide by their own rules,surely apart from not recognising
a majority vote it brings disgrace and disrepute down on itself which proves once again the
result the first time was the right one

[HPOL]

Everything in between is just stalling the inevitable and making Ireland and the Irish people look very ignorant to our European counterparts. What the Irish people fail to understand is, without Europe, Ireland is economically devastated and will eventually return us to the poverty not seen here since the 50's. The Treaty of Lisbon will be brought into force, one way or the other - eventually. So lets stop disrupting European progress and get on board - every other European member has or will ratified/ratify, what gives Ireland the right to hold things up for other members, just because we don't understand what the treaty means!

To have alternative and educated views does not make people "ignorant" to exercise ones right and vote as one chooses while living in a free society is not "disruptive".... but how do we measure democracy... by respecting the will of the people. On the last referendum the "Yes" vote which was the majority of the political parties simply didnt convince the people in their arguments.... they took too much for granted.... hence the overwhelming "No" vote.

In the last referendum, I went into the European Commission and got the full text of the Treaty and read it! If the "Yes" vote truly want to inform the people.... provide all households with the full text of the Treaty, The Charter of Fundamental Rights and the Legal Guarantees that were secured.

Now the scaremongering has begun... outcasts of Europe.... Ireland will be reduced to poverty.... well I hate to burst Ireland's bubble... did 10 years of economic development based on a single false fiscal economy... attract sustainable FDI... did it suddenly bring you out of poverty.... poverty still exists....today its relative and hidden.

[ibis]

I do not believe you are stupid.whatever the rights of Ireland, It was the EU that drew up the rules, if they are not able to abide by their own rules,surely apart from not recognising
a majority vote it brings disgrace and disrepute down on itself which proves once again the
result the first time was the right one

The EU doesn't draw up the rules on EU treaties - they're international treaties covered by the Treaty of Vienna. The EU has no competence to draw up its own treaties, or to make the rules on how they're handled.