Lisbon 2 - how will you vote?

[hiding behind a poster]

Ok well I wouldn't classify myself as a neutral, I am simply confused I want to vote Yes but I am being told by people like Joe Higgins who I trust this information while people like Cowen are saying there wrong, It's a case that I don't believe Cowen because he is very untrustworthy. I am not belitting the Yes side because they say to the No side that their wrong instead of producing information that makes their point concrete, Am I supposed to go on the word of the government?

No. You can go on the fact that the guarantees secured last week do not represent the word of a government that you rightly don't trust, but in fact represent a legal decision from the Council of Europe, and will become an international treaty as soon as Ireland ratifies Lisbon. Therefore the Yes side, by referring to these guarantees, are indeed referring to concrete facts, as you've requested.

I would be in support of helping out nations purely with medical assistance..etc

Ok, but what assistance we might provide isn't really the point. The point is that WE decide what (if any) assistance we provide, not the EU - and that's the way it should be. Not that the EU says "Ireland need provide medical assistance" or whatever, but that IRELAND DECIDES, according to its own laws and constitution, what it can and would do in such a scenario.

[Setanta781]

MollyJH, you have hit full on square in the head. You seem to know what you are talking about.

Hiding behind the poster, I think that to really put my trust behind the Yes campaign fully there needs to be a change in government, the current government just don't have my respect or trust for me to say yes I trust you to implement the treaty fairly for the Irish people, because to put it plainly and I would say there is more like me I just don't trust the government to vote Yes.

[hiding behind a poster]

Hiding behind the poster, I think that to really put my trust behind the Yes campaign fully there needs to be a change in government, the current government just don't have my respect or trust for me to say yes I trust you to implement the treaty fairly for the Irish people, because to put it plainly and I would say there is more like me I just don't trust the government to vote Yes.

But I've already made the point to you that the legal guarantees are not a promise from the Irish Government - if they were, I probably wouldn't believe them either. The guarantees will become a legally-binding international treaty as soon as Ireland ratifies Lisbon, and all 27 member states, as signatories to that treaty, will be obliged to uphold them under the 1969 Vienna Convention. The guarantees go WAY beyond the Irish government.

As for "implementing the Treaty fairly for the Irish people" - well that's not actually what the Treaty is about, and it can't be implemented in either a fair or unfair manner. If its ratified by Ireland and the remaining states who have yet to ratify, it then becomes the rule-book by which the EU exists, and goes about its business. You can't make a distinction between implementing it fairly or unfairly, because there's only one way to implement it. If on the other hand you don't trust the Irish government to act in the interests of the Irish people when they're doing EU business - well, that's a judgement call. But it also is irrelevant to the Lisbon debate - because if they're not acting in our interests, then it doesn't really matter what Treaty's provisions they're not acting in our interests under. In other words, you want a change of government, as do I - but that's irrelevant to Lisbon.

[FutureTaoiseach]

Why does there have to be a time-limit on polls anyway (before polling-day)?

[Pedro Pique]

Does this chap vote in this country ?...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq9Q1DBk8BI]YouTube - Robbie Keane Liverpool press conference[/ame]

[PhoenixIreland]

I'm more worried about the entire electorates of Kerry and Mayo than him tbh..look what they produced.

[Pedro Pique]

Whatever about Kerry and Mayo , its Clare that annoys me . No reason really, it just annoys me. Me and my friends call it 'The hungry county' and by god we dont mean it in a complimentary fashion !

[TwoTonneTonyGalento]

Democracy was ignored the last time, the guarantees given to us aren't even legally binding and it's the same treaty that we rejected thrown back at us again. I will be voting a resounding NO.

[red-365]

Voting no, not a single word of the thing has changed so why change my vote

Voting yes, not a single word of the thing has changed so why change my vote

[kerrynorth]

A 61-39 No is higher than the P.ie poll before Lisbon 1 IIRC. Although I suppose a similar poll on boards.ie would be of greater value as it would have less politicos with fixed positions and a greater poll than just 329. The boards Lisbon poll in the end had a 7% No margin on a 1700 vote poll and 7% was the margin in the end!