Lisbon 2 - how will you vote?

[midlander12]

No. The real reason for the latest push is to get the treaty into force before the Tories get into power in the UK and hold a referendum there, the result of which is not in doubt. In fact it is possible the Tories would just go ahead and abrogate it anyway on the grounds that it was ratified by a government which had lost any shred of a popular mandate. This is the latest stage in the campaign to negate democracy - when the Constitution was rejected they just renamed and decided not to have a referendum (except in Ireland), when they get the wrong result in Ireland they just rerun it with threats of doom if we don't change our minds, and then they try to rush it through before the Brits can get a chance to vote on it. We will lose any right to respect or self-respect if we give in to this blackmail.

[Clanrickard]

The same block would also vote that the Earth was flat.

I suppose if you can't play the ball play the man. Typical euronut. If voting YES is so feckin obvious why do so many people vote NO to referenda through out Europe to give more powers to Brussels?

[FutureTaoiseach]

Crackdown? Ganley, Mary Lou and Sinnott all put themselves before the people (unlike you) and were defeated.

What we have left is a bunch of unelected, unrepresentitive groups, who are so desperate for publicity they make wild and inaccurate statements.

I will again be engaging people on the doorsteps, and look forward to explaining the truth to them.

Bring Dick Roche with you.

What happened in the elections is that the anti-Lisbon vote ended up under-represented because the vote was too split. Good transfers from SF would have elected Ganley, while solid transfers from Ferris would have elected Sinnott. Nationally, around 30% voted for anti-Lisbon candidates but won just 8% of the seats. So on Europe at least, too much should not be read into the results. In 1994-2004, Ireland had 2 Green (then Eurosceptic) MEPs, with a third Eurosceptic (Dana) elected in 1999. That was before the onset of serious reservations about Europe in this country, so clearly, when taken with the close similarity of the results of the main parties in the local elections, Euro elections in this country are decided on national, not European, issues. Denmark and Sweden have a similar phenomenon. Only the UK votes primarily on the European issue in Euro elections.

[theghost]

Nothing to do with Lisbon, that happened back in 1973.

Will still be voting no on the grounds that I suspect those guarantees aren't worth the paper they're written on

[petervalhala]

Let's be clear, this is not a democratic vote.

The Irish people are being bludgeoned into Voting Yes by an alliance of the main parties lead by the village idiot Brian Cowen as well as very dodgy political elites all across Europe who have one common interest, to keep the EU gravy train running as long as possible.

So a referendum is not democratic? Try looking in a dictionary.

The yes side consists of a democratically elected government, along with every major opposition party. These people are elected by the people to do what is in the country's best interests, and they are.

Threats have been used against the Irish people that unless we vote Yes, there will be dire consequences. Such threats should be reason enough to vote NO.

Threats came from Libertas last time, e.g. microchipping kids and conscription. Logic clearly shows the downsides of a No vote and therefore the consequences have to be told to people.

Voting Yes or No will have negligible benefit to Ireland either way. But I believe voting No will hasten the political demise of the pathetic Cowen and his cabinet, and will be a well deserved embarrassment to them at EU level and maybe then the rest of Europe will see what an embecilic crowd of Ministers are running Ireland.

Voting No will have devastating consequences for this country, we will at best lose new FDI, and at worst lose all existing FDI.

Lisbon has nothing to do with how well, or otherwise, you view the performance of the current Government. Plus your 'logic' is flawed as IF the current government did go, it would be replaced by FG and Labour, both of which also support Lisbon. So in effect, you want to destory the country just to remove a government you don't like?

[petervalhala]

If this poll is reflective then the elites are in for one hell of a shock.

It won't, but if it does I promise never to post here again - will you do us all a favour and agree to do the same?

[Oblivion]

So a referendum is not democratic? Try looking in a dictionary.

Not when the result is spat back in our faces and obnoxious, patronising twats like yourself threaten us that we'd better give the "right" answer this time... or else.

No, it isn't.

[petervalhala]

Bring Dick Roche with you.

Know him well and admire his intellect, seen him in action on the doorsteps and if possible would clone him to bring him on every canvas.

What happened in the elections is that the anti-Lisbon vote ended up under-represented because the vote was too split. Good transfers from SF would have elected Ganley, while solid transfers from Ferris would have elected Sinnott. Nationally, around 30% voted for anti-Lisbon candidates but won just 8% of the seats. So on Europe at least, too much should not be read into the results. In 1994-2004, Ireland had 2 Green (then Eurosceptic) MEPs, with a third Eurosceptic (Dana) elected in 1999. That was before the onset of serious reservations about Europe in this country, so clearly, when taken with the close similarity of the results of the main parties in the local elections, Euro elections in this country are decided on national, not European, issues. Denmark and Sweden have a similar phenomenon. Only the UK votes primarily on the European issue in Euro elections.

Ah more excuses and denial, they stood and they were rejected, get used to it. Ganley has the good sense to know its over, you could learn from his example.

[petervalhala]

Will still be voting no on the grounds that I suspect those guarantees aren't worth the paper they're written on

Absolultely nothing to do with the binding legal guarantees, EU law has been superior to Irish law since 1973, Lisbon doesn't change that one way or the other.

[Geoffrey]

I will be voting Yes. The EU has been good to us in the past. We need to be at the heart of Europe.