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About LinkBackswhy is that i base all my analyses on treaty articles and links to newspapers with reputations for factual accuracy.
why is that i base all my analyses on treaty articles and links to newspapers with reputations for factual accuracy.
The recession had already started when we voted no as far as economists are concerned.Originally Posted by Libero
Oh, I agree. I was just suggesting that blaming the No vote for Ireland's economic problems would be every bit as shallow and dishonest as blaming Spain's economic problems on that country's Yes vote.
And, sadly, you were seriously suggesting just that, weren't you?
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Not on its own, no. I was simply making the point that the thesis that by voting yes we will dig ourselves out of this recession - as implied by the yes side and FF in particular - is a myth deserving only of contempt. Were it true, then unemployment would not have doubled in Spain.
I agree with you that it's nonsense to claim that a Yes vote would somehow cause us to "dig ourselves out of this recession". (Though to be fair to the Yes side, few have been desperate enough to make that claim; at most, they've insisted that a No vote would cause harm.)
Still, your mentioning of Spain and its Yes vote holds no water. Spain's Yes vote counted for nothing - bad or good - since the Treaty was effectively vetoed by the Irish vote. On the other hand, a Yes vote in Ireland would (holding everything else constant) see the Treaty passed all over Europe. So it's pretty hard for anyone on any side to draw any lessons from the Spanish Yes vote and it's still open for the Yes side to claim that a Yes vote would cause pixie dust to be dropped from a passing Euro-cloud, to the benefit of all.
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Their unemployment rise had absolutely nothing to do with Lisbon, and all to do with the timing of a world economic crisis (as you admitted yourself in post #12)
The no vote will certainly make things worse, economically and politically for Ireland
Last edited by petervalhala; 15th June 2009 at 06:17 PM.
If you refer to members of an organisation that is pro business and pro job creation as elites, I wonder what you call the ultra rich, unelectable, unaccountable Declan Ganley who spread nothing but misinformation last time.
Now you're contradicting yourself: If a country votes yes and unemployment rises, it has nothing to do with the way people voted. But if they vote no then it does.
No, you've contradicted yourself by trying to pretend that Spain's Yes vote caused their unemployment to rise.Now you're contradicting yourself: If a country votes yes and unemployment rises, it has nothing to do with the way people voted. But if they vote no then it does.
Clearly if Ireland votes No again it will have a serious effect on both current and future employment. Just look at the bad headlines in the international media last time and multiply that by ten.
We need to maintain and increase FDI, we need to recognise that 95% of our farm exports go to Europe, we need to recognise that Ireland has to be seen being at the heart of Europe.
Peter thats alarmist waffle. A no vote is a vote for the staus quo. Future's point is not that spains yes caused unemployment to double but to debunk the notion that voting yes will make things better. FDI relies only on our legal entitlements within the common market which wont change with a no vote.
