LinkBack URL
About LinkBacksyou probably see them under the bedOriginally Posted by tompatrick
you probably see them under the bed
They'll just lie about the guarantees.
It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.
To live honestly, to hurt no one, to give every one his due.
"Crowds are wise when the individuals in them have an incentive to get the right answer." James Surowiecki author of the Wisdom of Crowds.
I have nothing but overwhealming apathy towards Lisbon II. However the more Catholic whackjobs whine about Lisbon, the more likely I am to vote yes for absolutely no other reason than to shut them and the nationalists up (Yes, I know it's group polarization).
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Who should be the main voices? You mention the word democratic in your post regardless of the fact that the main players on the 'No' side last time were never democratically elected and had vested interests to put it mildly. And then the same 'No' side crib about their democratic rights being eroding by a lack of respect for the referendum result.
When you talk about the main voices here it is fair to say that these voices should be political ones i.e. those who have been elected democratically and have no immediate vested interests. Anything less is unacceptable. Libertas tried it the democratic way but didn't cut it - not only in Ireland but in Europe generally.
The government and the opposition agree on very little these days so I think that when they actually agree on something it's a pretty safe bet. And I also make the point that Labour, as populist as they are, vowed not to support a second Lisbon treaty but something tells me that they're not going to live up to that vow.
That leaves Sinn Fein as the only credible, democratically elected 'voice' on the 'No' side. So good luck with that...
Hopefully we can push the angle that the people who squandered our money and created the recession are calling on us to back the treaty.
- Sinn Fein, the Socialist Party, SWP and other left groups. A clear left wing perspective that offers an alternative to the developing EU model would be a good start.
There will be scare tactics on both sides of the non-left argument.
Ah Marmurr,
I'm diasppointed, I hoped you would not be the first on the Yes side to arrive.
Please say it ain't so.
O.K. Here's a bit of Churchillian Rhetoric, when he was determined to lead the British against the then greatest threat to democracy, the Nazis.......Never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never,........
The one surefire way to get Lisbon 2 defeated is to make it a referendum on the government. Get No speakers to repeat ad naseum that the government would have to resign if they failed to get a Yes vote the 2nd time and that the government would take a Yes as a vindication of their economic and banking policies. If you can get that made as an issue in the campaign then it will sorely test FG and Labour supporters commitment and split the Yes campaign.
Pay no attention to 'Tomfoolery', i've already explained that abortion exists in this country.. he still thinks that the EU will impose it?!? Even when it's here already?!?!you probably see them under the bed
And to evercloserunion.. We haven't seen the guarantees yet. How do you know the NO side will lie about them? Isn't it just as possible that the YES may also lie about them?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." – George Bernard Shaw
If it helps to clarify anyone else's opinion on the matter: I voted No last time, and will again, because (a) I don't trust Fianna Fail or Fine Gael, (b) I don't trust the European bosses. I accuse Irish mainstream politicians of short-sighted self-interest, and I believe that with the current attitude of the European commission, a federalised Europe would become just another economic superbully, exploiting both its own citizens and those in other parts of the world that have something we want, e.g. West Africa has fish, so we throw them a few million euros and empty their waters, destroying local fishers' livelihoods. I will not support anything that is predicated on an unethical and unsustainable view of the world.
