This will help:
Doubt over legal status of Lisbon guarantees
THERE is still huge uncertainty over whether guarantees regarding neutrality, abortion and taxation will be attached as protocols to the Lisbon treaty – a key demand of the Government for re-running the referendum....Give us Jobs not Lisbon.Originally Posted by west'sawake
Last edited by FutureTaoiseach; 16th June 2009 at 12:44 AM.
Brilliant FT. Welcome back from that digression!
Wow,Wow, Wow, well done and your knew Logo, you better copyright that. Can I have a copy PLEEEEESE.
Down with socialism by the back door, the E.U. corporatist juggernaut.
Free Europe. Vote No.
Jaysus FT fair play ... getting the AV at this ungodly hour .... Mods never sleep
I'm not actually that bothered, one way or the other. My point was that FutureTaoiseach spent the entire election campaign claiming that the huge anti-Lisbon vote would elect Ganley, NcDonald and Sinnott - and I don't think its a coincidence that all three, the most vocal and obviously anti-Lisbon candidates, lost their seats. And as soon as that happened, FT started claiming that Lisbon wasn't an election issue. Now whether it was or it wasn't is beside the point (though the circumstantial evidence at least SUGGESTS it was, particularly when you look at how transfer-repellant Ganley and McDonald were) - my point is that either FT was wrong then, or he's wrong now. Has to be one or the other.
I think that's stretching it a bit. Those "machines" would succeed largely in bringing out the properly anti-Europe vote, the vote that votes against every European Treaty anyway - so there's nothing new for you there. And Higgins got in not on the strength of a great first-preference vote, but I suspect because he became the fashionable transfer for FG, Labour and Green voters who had strong motivations for keeping both Ryan and McDonald out, but don't share the same antipathy to Uncle Joe. Finally, on the influx of Independents, I think a fair few are basically FFers, so I don't think you can really extrapolate them to be anti-Lisbon.What you are forgetting though is that there are also a much bigger number of Independents returned and the little tentative research I have done shows that the majority of them are Anti Lisbon. I think we may well have an even stronger grass roots local leaders, non mainstream party effort this time in each county,and whole swathes of working class Dublin motivated by Higgins. Also do not underestimate the local party machines of S.F. Healy in Tipp, and other rainbow type allaince fiefdoms, (Dun Laoighre, Cork North, Limerick East, etc).
Its only familiar in the sense that its similar to every poll since about last November - with the Yes vote solidly above 50%, which it never was prior to the first referendum. At best the Yes figure reached about 30% then, while it seems quite solid above 50% now. That is very significant.Maybe I'm clutching at straws, but I was somewhat comforted by the last MRBI Poll that gave a solid 28% no vote and the Yes only a little above 50%. Sounds familiar doesn't it!
"Elite - a small superior group; esp one that has a power out of proportion to its size." (Oxford English Dictionary)
The majority cannot therefore be the elite.
So the EU is both corporatist and socialist at the same time? Weird. I suppose that's just more Eeyorism from the No side.
"Elite - a small superior group; esp one that has a power out of proportion to its size." (Oxford English Dictionary)
The majority cannot therefore be the elite.
As we have seen during the last crisis. Public money for the happy few.
[size=1][color=grey]My name is Plissken[/color][/size]
Fixed that for you.
It's amusing that some of the No voters here are proclaiming Lisbon to be a move to a facist/coporatist/socialist EU, both because of the contradictory nature of the claims and because of the fact that the majority of opposition is coming from extremes similar to those claims, i.e. the far right and far left elements.
If the EU were going down a socialist route FT why is the Socialist Party opposed to it? It's amazing how full of crap you really are. Your opinion doesn't even have to be consistant.
As for Yes slogans:
Socialists, Sinn Fein and dodgy right-wing business men. Do you trust them?
The No side want to deny you the right to vote. Say Yes to Democracy.
Don't think that shower are fit to represent you? <insert Libertas logo beneath>
The EU has given us millions. What have the Socialists, Sinn Fein or Libertas ever done for you?
Want a more efficient EU? Vote Yes.
Seeing as meaningful debate is wasted here, when in Rome....
The EU stole our fisheries to the tune of €200 billion and unemployment was high for two-thirds of our time as EU members. It wasn't all one way, and sovereignty is priceless. To surrender what's left of it is to betray the men and women of 1916.
Last edited by FutureTaoiseach; 16th June 2009 at 01:51 PM.
I don't suppose you have any proof of this 200 billion figure? I would love to see it. That figure is so outlandish I actually laughed when I saw it. FYI the total amount fished in Irish waters since we joined the EU until 2004 was $12bn (http://www.seaaroundus.org/ - an American site, hence the dollars). That is the total which includes what we fished. So you would have to identify how much we fished in that time period, deduct is from the 12bn to get what we could have lost. Given that we could not have hoped to have matched that level in the same time period given our fishing fleets size I think it's fair to say you're talking out your hole well and truly.
As for the increased melodrama, first we were betraying those who died in WW2, now we're betraying those who died in 1916. You really are full of it! I hope to God noone here is daft enough to take you seriously!
Last edited by molloyjh; 16th June 2009 at 12:29 PM.
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