Has the no to Lisbon campaign in Ireland been terminally damaged?

[molloyjh]

Like two Nos?

I presume you are referring to the Constitution rather than Lisbon, which is a different thing altogether.

I've been through this countless times already so I'm not arsed going through it again. What I will say is that I find it incredibly funny that people go on about France and the Netherlands rejection of the Constitution like it means something, when in reality they have no idea why those countries rejected the Constitution and have no idea if their concerns were actually addressed in Lisbon.

Before you go any further with this argument I strongly suggest you research that. You may be surprised by what you find.

[arnaudherve]

I presume you are referring to the Constitution rather than Lisbon, which is a different thing altogether.

No, it isn't.

What I will say is that I find it incredibly funny that people go on about France and the Netherlands rejection of the Constitution like it means something, when in reality they have no idea why those countries rejected the Constitution and have no idea if their concerns were actually addressed in Lisbon.

Because they were afraid of generalized poverty.

Before you go any further with this argument I strongly suggest you research that. You may be surprised by what you find.

I research that. I am indeed always surprised by the depth of the wrong doing

[FutureTaoiseach]

Let the Dutch and French govts put it to referenda if they're so sure their ppls are satisfied with the removal of references to the flag and anthem and renaming the EU Foreign Minister the High Representative is sufficient to overcome the loss of 40 vetoes and the conferral of all the powers of a Supreme Court on the ECJ. The Dutch PVV's success and that of anti-Lisbon leftists gives us a fair idea. The will of the people, expressed in referenda, must be respected or next the politicians will reject election results and dictatorship beckons.

[arnaudherve]

Exactly for all the rest, but not to this :

The Dutch PVV's success and that of anti-Lisbon leftists gives us a fair idea.

Many supporters of the No did not want to vote leftist; and many leftist voters did not turn out to vote.

[molloyjh]

No, it isn't.



Because they were afraid of generalized poverty.



I research that. I am indeed always surprised by the depth of the wrong doing

Wow there was just 1 reason that both countries voted against the Constitution!? What are the odds?

Let the Dutch and French govts put it to referenda if they're so sure their ppls are satisfied with the removal of references to the flag and anthem and renaming the EU Foreign Minister the High Representative is sufficient to overcome the loss of 40 vetoes and the conferral of all the powers of a Supreme Court on the ECJ. The Dutch PVV's success and that of anti-Lisbon leftists gives us a fair idea. The will of the people, expressed in referenda, must be respected or next the politicians will reject election results and dictatorship beckons.

If the French were not happy with Lisbon we would all know about it. It's not like they are afraid to protest or anything. The fact that they haven't plus the fact that they happily (very happily as I recall) elected someone who stated he would ratify Lisbon without a referendum and you have compelling evidence that they were happy enough with the Treaty. That as against absolutely no evidence thus far of them not being happy. If you have some now is the time to share.

It is not your right to demand or insist on referenda in other countries. That is up to them and noone elses. You complain about some apparent loss of sovereignty here but yet you also feel you have the right to ignore the sovereignty of other nations when it suits you. Not avery good quality, hypocracy.

[Trampas]

I presume you are referring to the Constitution rather than Lisbon, which is a different thing altogether.

Goodnight.

[arnaudherve]

If the French were not happy with Lisbon we would all know about it. It's not like they are afraid to protest or anything. The fact that they haven't plus the fact that they happily (very happily as I recall) elected someone who stated he would ratify Lisbon without a referendum

The majority voted for someone who would ratify a "mini-treaty", by which was meant a constitutional treaty without part III, the economic part.

and you have compelling evidence that they were happy enough with the Treaty. That as against absolutely no evidence thus far of them not being happy. If you have some now is the time to share.

I suggest then that they have a second referendum, since all important people seem to believe it's ok to have second referenda. You will have your compelling evidence then.

[molloyjh]

The majority voted for someone who would ratify a "mini-treaty", by which was meant a constitutional treaty without part III, the economic part.



I suggest then that they have a second referendum, since all important people seem to believe it's ok to have second referenda. You will have your compelling evidence then.

They can't have a second one because it has been ratified already. Either way what you are saying is you have no evidence to back up your claims. Maybe you should think about that before making them yeah?

[Adrian Wainer]

I think we should be more worried about the Lapps.
We don't want to end up like the reindeer.

*waits excitedly for Adrian Wainer's Youtube video on Santa's war-crimes*

The Santa War

Well actually you've got it all wrong, I have a posting somewhere on the net which examines the possibility that 2009 will be the year that "radical" Islam will declare War on Santa and things will happen like Syrian fighter aircraft will attempt to shoot down Santa's Sleigh, when its cloaking device fails. I am speaking from my memory of this posting, so I might have some aspects wrong, but I hope that gives the general idea.

Official NORAD Santa Tracker

SANTA SLEIGH INSPECTION

Actually, the above DOT link is rather misleading, as it would give the impression that Santa's sleigh is powered by conventional hydrogen fuel cells, the reality is that Santa's sleigh is driven by an atomic nuclear fusion device. That said, the nuclear fusion motor is only the slow speed engine which provides power when Santa's sleigh is maybe very slowly maneuvering to approach people's roofs and chimneys, to when the sleigh is traveling at near light speeds. For acceleration through the light speed barrier and time travel capability, Santa's sleigh uses a different propulsion technology, the details of which, few are known and those that are, are barely understood.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

[arnaudherve]

They can't have a second one because it has been ratified already.

Oh that's right. My mistake.

I always forget that if a No result is certain, holding a second referendum is not a good idea. Stupid me.