Has the no to Lisbon campaign in Ireland been terminally damaged?

[Adrian Wainer]

On your own argument, voting yes to Lisbon will lead to people being shot on the street without trial.

Is this what private Industry wants?

Ridciulous.
Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker.

No, my position is robustly intact.

The objective of private industry is to generate profits. If more profits can be generated by shooting people in the streets without trial and less profits will be generated by not shooting people in the streets without trial, private industry is likely to favour shooting people in the streets without trial.

The political arrangement proposed by the Lisbon treaty is undemocratic and the methodology for bringing about that political arrangement is undemocratic, ( e.g. the French voting no to the European Constitution in a referendum, then Lisbon I being passed by the French Government rather than holding a second referendum ),. Whether the EU, if Lisbon II is brought in to effect, will prove to be a benign dictatorship with economic progress and a high standard of living or become an economically stagnated terror state, I do not know for sure, what I do know for sure, is that it is grossly disgusting that ordinary people should be used without their permission as laboratory rats, for this sociopolitical experiment.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

[Chuck de Mawl]

just because someone lies is no reason to no longer "trust them as an advisor on any other topic".

It doesn't matter to me whether you and I fundamentally disagree on whether or not we would trust a known liar as an advisor, or whether trusting someone as an advisor has a different meaning to you than it does to me.
I don't see anything to back up your logic that it is 'no reason not to trust them'. It's not like we're talking about a kid who said the dog ate his homework. Politicians lie about whether or not they will give us referenda, about whether or not they are voting to participate in a war, shut a hospital, and a great many other things, and they will command their party colleagues to repeat the same line, up until a whistleblower, tribunal or undisputable proof comes to light.

I dont particularly want to labour on these minor points

Okay. Quit labouring then . I will note for future reference, should we ever converse again, that you are willing to trust people you know to be liars. and now we can move on. Slán.

[Adrian Wainer]

On your own argument, voting yes to Lisbon will lead to people being shot on the street without trial.

Is this what European Union agencies want?

Ridciulous.

Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker.

If one is in a somewhat senior position in the European Union bureaucracy, it is likely to be in one's interest to ever expand the things that the EU does. As many things are already done by European states, this provides an incentive to have powers transferred to the European Union from the member states. My view is that the European Union bureaucracy is entirely disinterested in whether Lisbon II is a good idea or not in the global sense of the legitimate interests of the people of the member states. Lisbon II, will provide excellent possibilities for bureaucratic empire building and in my view that is all the European Union bureaucracy is interested in.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

[Adrian Wainer]

And considering that most senior Irish politicians are "career politicians" who dont end up getting significant jobs in private industry or in European Union agencies, that argument doesnt really cut it either.

Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker.

I only noted that as one push factor, and Irish politicians do take on directorships and do get jobs with the European Union agencies.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

[drkpower]

I will note for future reference, should we ever converse again, that you are willing to trust people you know to be liars. and now we can move on. Slán.

Grow up, Chuck.
Everybody lies.
You can be assured that everyone you have ever sought advice from has lied.
You need to separate what the lies are and whether they actually significantly interfere with that persons ability to continue providing you with sound advice.

Heres a LadyBird example:

If your lawyer tells you that he has made a telephone call to an expert on your behalf in rlation to your claim but it turns out he hasnt done so yet, he is aliar. However, it has had no significant effect on your claim, and while you are a little upset with him for being dishonest, you might want to consider keeping him on the job because he is relly good.
If your lawyer tells you that he has settled your claim for €50K but he really settled it for €100K and he pocketed the rest, he is a liar; do not deal with this guy again.

[drkpower]

No, my position is robustly intact.

The objective of private industry is to generate profits. If more profits can be generated by shooting people in the streets without trial and less profits will be generated by not shooting people in the streets without trial, private industry is likely to favour shooting people in the streets without trial.

Your brain is robustly dysfunctional.

Who are all these evil people in "private Industry".....
I work in private Industry (or at least private professional sevices - are we evil too?).
Im certain I dont want to shoot people in the street to increase profits.
Im pretty sure my colleagues dont also.
While I dont know them as well, most of my clients wouldnt either.

Who, prey tell, are these evil ones who want to see blood on the streets to increase their profit levels.

Is it possible, Adrian, that you are a student/unemployed and have never actually worked in this "private Industry" that you talk of and, for that reason, you have no idea that it is populated by ordinary people. Sure they want to make a profit, but apart from the odd looony, none of them want to shoot peole in the street.

[Adrian Wainer]

Your brain is robustly dysfunctional.

Who are all these evil people in "private Industry".....
I work in private Industry (or at least private professional sevices - are we evil too?).
Im certain I dont want to shoot people in the street to increase profits.
Im pretty sure my colleagues dont also.
While I dont know them as well, most of my clients wouldnt either.

Who, prey tell, are these evil ones who want to see blood on the streets to increase their profit levels.

Is it possible, Adrian, that you are a student/unemployed and have never actually worked in this "private Industry" that you talk of and, for that reason, you have no idea that it is populated by ordinary people. Sure they want to make a profit, but apart from the odd looony, none of them want to shoot peole in the street.

Is it possible you are completely full of odious crap? I was making a generalization about an attitude in private enterprise, a generalization does not apply to all the elements in all situations. You are making personal highly offensive comments about me. You are in fact in my opinion offering two somewhat conflicting opinions with regard to my expressed views, you are claiming my "brain is robustly dysfunctional." and then you are floating the possibility that, I am a "student/unemployed and have never actually worked in this "private Industry"", as to that being the reason why I would have the views that I have. If you genuinely believe my "brain is robustly dysfunctional.", why would it be necessary for me to be a "student/unemployed and have never actually worked in this "private Industry"" for me to express the views which I do, your argument just does not make sense? Furthermore, if I had a some sort of pathological hatred of private enterprise, why would have I, for example argued in this forum, that it would be good idea to look at the possibility for the Irish Air Corps to be equipped with ShinMawya flying boats for long range search and rescue work. Japan is a robustly capitalist country with some of the largest, most profitable and most successful commercial companies in the World, it just would not make sense for me to be praising the efforts of Japanese industry, if I actually was adopting the attitude you would apparently suggest I am adopting.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZP9xUd9CN4]YouTube - Taxing and take off of US-1A, a flying boat[/ame]

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

[drkpower]

Is it possible you are completely full of odious crap? I was making a generalization about an attitude in private enterprise, a generalization does not apply to all the elements in all situations. You are making personal highly offensive comments about me, you are in fact in my opinion offering two somewhat conflicting opinions for my expressed views, you are claiming my "brain is robustly dysfunctional." and then you are floating the possibility that, I am a "student/unemployed and have never actually worked in this "private Industry"", as to that being the reason why I would have views that I have. If you genuinely believe my "brain is robustly dysfunctional.", why would it be necessary for me to be a "student/unemployed and have never actually worked in this "private Industry"" for me to express the views which I do, your argument just does not make sense? Furthermore, if I had a some sort of pathological hatred of private enterprise, why would have I....

The "your brain is robustly dysfunctional" line, was, of course a jibe. In any case, even if it were not, it is not mutually exclusive with you being a student who has never worked in private enterprise. I have come across many students whose brains are borderline dysfunctional and who have never worked in private enterprise.

Secondly, do not start claiming now that you were merely making generalisations and that you do not "hate" private Industry when earlier you said this:

No, my position is robustly intact.
The objective of private industry is to generate profits. If more profits can be generated by shooting people in the streets without trial and less profits will be generated by not shooting people in the streets without trial, private industry is likely to favour shooting people in the streets without trial.

You cannot make such an outrageous assertion and then seek to qualify and back away from it when you are called on it. Take a little responsibility for what you say, or do not say it.

While it is usually ok to make certain statements and then nuance/clarify those statements at a later stage, it is entirely unacceptable and disingenuous to say something as blatantly ridiculous in an entirely unqualified manner as in the above post and to then attempt to resile from it by claiming it was merely a generalisation of on particular attitude in private enterprise.

[Adrian Wainer]

The "your brain is robustly dysfunctional" line, was, of course a jibe. In any case, even if it were not, it is not mutually exclusive with you being a student who has never worked in private enterprise. I have come across many students whose brains are borderline dysfunctional and who have never worked in private enterprise.

So you are claiming, it was a deliberately insulting remark intended to degrade me, rather than a psychiatric diagnosis offered in good faith, is that your position? So you claim to,"have come across many students whose brains are borderline dysfunctional and who have never worked in private enterprise", could you clarify, this for me, are just being insulting about third Parties without factual basis or are you making a psychiatric diagnosis?

Secondly, do not start claiming now that you were merely making generalisations and that you do not "hate" private Industry when earlier you said this:

No, my position is robustly intact.

The objective of private industry is to generate profits. If more profits can be generated by shooting people in the streets without trial and less profits will be generated by not shooting people in the streets without trial, private industry is likely to favour shooting people in the streets without trial.

The political arrangement proposed by the Lisbon treaty is undemocratic and the methodology for bringing about that political arrangement is undemocratic, ( e.g. the French voting no to the European Constitution in a referendum, then Lisbon I being passed by the French Government rather than holding a second referendum ),. Whether the EU, if Lisbon II is brought in to effect, will prove to be a benign dictatorship with economic progress and a high standard of living or become an economically stagnated terror state, I do not know for sure, what I do know for sure, is that it is grossly disgusting that ordinary people should be used without their permission as laboratory rats, for this sociopolitical experiment.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

You cannot make such an outrageous assertion and then seek to qualify and back away from it when you are called on it. Take a little responsibility for what you say, or do not say it.

There is nothing outrageous about that assertion, it is perfectly logical and reasonable and I have not sought to qualify it and back away from it, I merely was seeking to elaborate on it to more fully explain it, as I was making an allowance for the possibility that you might be quite expert in whatever you do but might be relatively unknowledgeable in the matters under discussion.

While it is usually ok to make certain statements and then nuance/clarify those statements at a later stage, it is entirely unacceptable and disingenuous to say something as blatantly ridiculous in an entirely unqualified manner as in the above post and to then attempt to resile from it by claiming it was merely a generalisation of on particular attitude in private enterprise.

Well that is so off the mark, as to constitute pseudo intellectual diarrhea. Bye the way, take a good look at yourself in your comment "your brain is robustly dysfunctional" comment and subsequent remarks concerning it and connected with it.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

[drkpower]

Bye the way, take a good look at yourself in your comment "your brain is robustly dysfunctional" comment and subsequent remarks concerning it and connected with it.

Adrian, pull yourself together and stop crying about the dysfunctional brain comment. It was originally a jibe although I'm beginning to believe it now.

There is nothing outrageous about that assertion, it is perfectly logical and reasonable and have not sought to qualify it and back away from it, I merely was seeking to elaborate on it to more fully explain it, as I was making an allowance for the possibility that you might be quite expert in whatever you do but might be relatively unknowledgeable in the matters under discussion.

Actually, I take it back - your brain is dysfunctional. First you say, in a straightforward manner, that private enterprise want to shoot people in the street. Then you say you were "making a generalization about an attitude in private enterprise, a generalization does not apply to all the elements in all situations". Now you say that that was not a qualification and that your original assertion was perfectly logical....!!!

So, let me get this straight:
1. the line in italics above is not a qualification......?
2. the assertion that private enterprise wants to shoot people in the street is perfectly logical......?
3. (and from earlier) a Lisbon Yes vote is a vote for people being shot in the street without trial.......!?

Yes, it's entirley dysfunctional. It's been a while but here is my putative diagnosis.

Paranoid personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[SIZE="1"]particularly these aspects:
1. Suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are exploiting, harming, or deceiving him or her
2. Reads benign remarks or events as threatening or demeaning.
3. Persistently bears grudges, i.e., is unforgiving of insults, injuries, or slights
4. Perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to counterattack[/SIZE]