Pro/Anti Lisbon Treaty does not centre around pro/anti Libertas

[Ah Well]

Ironically enough, it does seem that the Thread title is the complete opposite as portrayed oftentimes on this Site.

It doesn't take a genius to realise that Libertas are not pro Lisbon Treaty.

As an ardent No to Lisbon person and also very much a non Libertas Member or Supporter for that matter, it often feels to me that the whole Lisbon thing on this Site is degenerating into whether one is pro or anti Libertas.

There are countless Libertas Threads (anti more than pro) arriving daily.

I am for one fed up of it. It's taking very much from the larger picture of the Lisbon Treaty and from the nays and yays re same ... and from the rational discussion of such scenario. The Libertas thing inevitably is coming into it time and time and time and time and time again

[FutureTaoiseach]

I agree with you that they are separate things, but if you listen to any Euro-candidate debates on the radio, you'll notice that the pro-Lisbon candidates focus almost all their fire on Libertas rather than each other. They are the ones dragging it back to this one party. Notice that you don't hear SF banging on about it.

[Ah Well]

I agree with you that they are separate things, but if you listen to any Euro-candidate debates on the radio, you'll notice that the pro-Lisbon candidates focus almost all their fire on Libertas rather than each other. They are the ones dragging it back to this one party. Notice that you don't hear SF banging on about it.

Aha ... you're the 1st person on P.ie I would have thought of as being Anti Lisbon from input on P.ie. But whatever bout what those folks in mainline politics act up to/on ... I do think on here it serves no wonderful purpose as an anti Lisbon type dwelling round the Libertas Threads ...

It would be far better suited to open/defend general Lisbon Threads .... and tbh it is prob a case of opening them cos otherwise there is the choice of delving into Libertas ones

[toxic avenger]

I wouldn't vote Libertas (even if they were running here in the South), and I'm very anti-Lisbon. I do recognise, however, the important section of votes that Libertas brought to the 'no' side, the rugged individualists and conservatives suspicious of lefties and the Shinners. The government and assorted Europhiles recognise that also, hence the campaign. Sink Libertas, they reckon, and the 'no' side is sunk. That's why I won't play the game, I won't be suckered into attacking Libertas. Plenty time for that malarkey after the referendum...

[cactusflower]

I'm also Anti-Libertas and anti-Lisbon/ anti EU. I don't see the things as that closely connected as Ganley intended to launch Libertas long before the Treaty came along.

I appreciate what you're saying Ah Well. Perhaps the thing to do is to start a thread on the left opposition to Lisbon (if that is where you are coming from).
Othewise we are still here talking about Libertas.

[constitutionus]

you can extend the thread title as well to include anti/pro europe.

plenty of people are happy to be in europe but completly oppose this treaty but you dont hear a peep about that in the media, infact they go out of their way to highlight how a majority seem to value membership and directly draw implied correlations to supposed support of the treaty as if its one and the same.

its one of the reasons i still think the treaty will be shot down again as the "opinion makers" are STILL just talking to one another and refuse to ask basic questions on the issue.

the most blindingly obvious one being "do you WANT to be voting on this again?"

[eurosceptic]

The ambition is to split the no campaign much like at nice 2. There was a deliberate effort to give justin barrett all the publicity only to have a "revelation" near the vote. It worked handsomely at nice 2.

[ibis]

Ironically enough, it does seem that the Thread title is the complete opposite as portrayed oftentimes on this Site.

It doesn't take a genius to realise that Libertas are not pro Lisbon Treaty.

As an ardent No to Lisbon person and also very much a non Libertas Member or Supporter for that matter, it often feels to me that the whole Lisbon thing on this Site is degenerating into whether one is pro or anti Libertas.

There are countless Libertas Threads (anti more than pro) arriving daily.

I am for one fed up of it. It's taking very much from the larger picture of the Lisbon Treaty and from the nays and yays re same ... and from the rational discussion of such scenario. The Libertas thing inevitably is coming into it time and time and time and time and time again

That is at least partly because they're standing for election, and on an anti-Lisbon ticket. Mind you, I'm pro-Lisbon and anti-Libertas separately. I'd still oppose Libertas if they were pro-Lisbon, although obviously somewhat less strongly, given they wouldn't be annoying me on two fronts.

[Ah Well]

That is at least partly because they're standing for election, and on an anti-Lisbon ticket. Mind you, I'm pro-Lisbon and anti-Libertas separately. I'd still oppose Libertas if they were pro-Lisbon, although obviously somewhat less strongly, given they wouldn't be annoying me on two fronts.

That still doesn't justify why pretty much the whole of the Lisbon thing on this Site has a Libertas slant to it

I'm as anti-Lisbon as one can get ... but equal to that I have no interest in nor do I support nor will I support Libertas either

[lapsedmethodist]

Ironically enough, it does seem that the Thread title is the complete opposite as portrayed oftentimes on this Site.

It doesn't take a genius to realise that Libertas are not pro Lisbon Treaty.

As an ardent No to Lisbon person and also very much a non Libertas Member or Supporter for that matter, it often feels to me that the whole Lisbon thing on this Site is degenerating into whether one is pro or anti Libertas.

There are countless Libertas Threads (anti more than pro) arriving daily.

I am for one fed up of it. It's taking very much from the larger picture of the Lisbon Treaty and from the nays and yays re same ... and from the rational discussion of such scenario. The Libertas thing inevitably is coming into it time and time and time and time and time again

I agree entirely. As an ardent pro-Eu and therefore pro-Lisbon person, I can't for the life of me understand why Ganley has to take all the flack; welcome as that fact is.
The other loonies- Coughlan, Cole, McKenna etc- are actually demented whereas Ganley is only an ODC.
And that's not to mention Coir and its Lefebrist fascist take on things.
I'm going to stop now before I talk myself into liking Ganley !