Government in Ireland is a mess: Better say Yes?

[eurosceptic]

Dr.Bob Iceland will be in a better position than us fairly soon!

[Pauli]

Nope. Someone else in Ireland might do a better job. The mess we are in is equally the fault of the EU because of the single-interest rate without which the property-bubble would not have reached the astronomic heights it did and consequenty wreck the economy when it burst. If anything, the recession should strengthen the case for a no vote, constituting as it does a warning-sign of how things can go badly wrong for individual, small member states when power is effectivelt handed over to their often larger member states over a crucial area of national sovereignty. Having said that, I do agree that at present, remaining in the euro is the least, worst option. But the answer to Lisbon must be no once more, all things considered. To suggest the Irish can't govern themselves is neo-colonial or an EU form of West Britishness (albeit bending the knee to Europe rather than Britain).

We've been here before, FT. The EU has nothing to do with the mess we are in right now. There is an element of international influence connected with our present travails but 80% of the reason we are in the mess we are in can be laid fair and square at the door of the FF/PD government 1997-2007. Another 10% can be ascribed to the govt. of the last 2 years.

Inrerest rates were low for everyone in the Eurozone. Ireland proved that it had not the political maturity to understand how best to deal with the issue which is hardly surprising since most of the cabinet in the 1997-2007 government were idiots. The present govt. has the likes of O'Dea, Cullen and Hanafin in it.

Our Deputy Prime Minister/Tanaiste/Minister for Trade, Enterprise and Employment is Mary Coughlan, FFS!!!

And you want to blame the EU!

[hiding behind a poster]

Nope. Someone else in Ireland might do a better job. The mess we are in is equally the fault of the EU because of the single-interest rate without which the property-bubble would not have reached the astronomic heights it did and consequenty wreck the economy when it burst. If anything, the recession should strengthen the case for a no vote, constituting as it does a warning-sign of how things can go badly wrong for individual, small member states when power is effectivelt handed over to their often larger member states over a crucial area of national sovereignty.

On the contrary, the Irish government had full control of fiscal policy, and could have used all aspects of same in order to dampen down the inflationary effects of low Eurozone interest rates. The fact that they chose not to do so, preferring instead to pursue short-term electoral gain, suggests that had they had control of interest rates, they'd have done exactly the same thing there.

[hiding behind a poster]

Dr.Bob Iceland will be in a better position than us fairly soon!

No they won't. That's an utterly dumb comment.

[FutureTaoiseach]

We've been here before, FT. The EU has nothing to do with the mess we are in right now. There is an element of international influence connected with our present travails but 80% of the reason we are in the mess we are in can be laid fair and square at the door of the FF/PD government 1997-2007. Another 10% can be ascribed to the govt. of the last 2 years.

Inrerest rates were low for everyone in the Eurozone. Ireland proved that it had not the political maturity to understand how best to deal with the issue which is hardly surprising since most of the cabinet in the 1997-2007 government were idiots. The present govt. has the likes of O'Dea, Cullen and Hanafin in it.

Our Deputy Prime Minister/Tanaiste/Minister for Trade, Enterprise and Employment is Mary Coughlan, FFS!!!

And you want to blame the EU!

Years of 2-4% interest-rates were just pouring oil on a blazing-fire that was the housing-market in this country. The interest-rates were set in effect on the basis of what was good for France, Germany, Italy and Spain rather than little Ireland and its small economy. The responsibility is shared between this govt's policies of stimulating the construction-sector through mass-immigration and refusal to tackle planning-issues that were making matters worse e.g. rezoning, failure to implement Bacon Report in full with respect to social and affordable housing. But again - responsibility also rests with the ECB, which to be fair was only doing the job allotted to it under the Maastricht Treaty. The underlying point is that we have learned from this (or should have) the dangers of blindly waltzing into further European integration without taking the long-view of how things might work out not necessarily to our advantage. Indeed Nice could also be accused of having a partial responsibility for the recession by providing much of the stimulus in terms of demand for housing through mass-immigration from Eastern Europe. Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them. Give us Jobs - not Lisbon.

[hiding behind a poster]

Years of 2-4% interest-rates were just pouring oil on a blazing-fire that was the housing-market in this country. The interest-rates were set in effect on the basis of what was good for France, Germany, Italy and Spain rather than little Ireland and its small economy. The responsibility is shared between this govt's policies of stimulating the construction-sector through mass-immigration and refusal to tackle planning-issues that were making matters worse e.g. rezoning, failure to implement Bacon Report in full with respect to social and affordable housing. But again - responsibility also rests with the ECB, which to be fair was only doing the job allotted to it under the Maastricht Treaty. The underlying point is that we have learned from this (or should have) the dangers of blindly waltzing into further European integration without taking the long-view of how things might work out not necessarily to our advantage. Indeed Nice could also be accused of having a partial responsibility for the recession by providing much of the stimulus in terms of demand for housing through mass-immigration from Eastern Europe. Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them. Give us Jobs - not Lisbon.

So you accept that our own sovereign government had the economic and policy tools available to it to counteract the low interest rates, but chose not to do so.

After which you blame the EU. You couldn't make it up. (shakes head in bewilderment)

[atlantic]

Pauli
The ECB are one of the main causes we are in this mess with low interest rates and over leveraging of banks with fiat money.The Government are at fault for their HO He-hAW stoking , sh1tty regulation,sh1t planning,crony capitalism,economic illiteracy and now corporate welfare .

We've been here before, FT. The EU has nothing to do with the mess we are in right now. There is an element of international influence connected with our present travails but 80% of the reason we are in the mess we are in can be laid fair and square at the door of the FF/PD government 1997-2007. Another 10% can be ascribed to the govt. of the last 2 years.

Inrerest rates were low for everyone in the Eurozone. Ireland proved that it had not the political maturity to understand how best to deal with the issue which is hardly surprising since most of the cabinet in the 1997-2007 government were idiots. The present govt. has the likes of O'Dea, Cullen and Hanafin in it.

Our Deputy Prime Minister/Tanaiste/Minister for Trade, Enterprise and Employment is Mary Coughlan, FFS!!!

And you want to blame the EU!

[dalywise]

Years of 2-4% interest-rates were just pouring oil on a blazing-fire that was the housing-market in this country. The interest-rates were set in effect on the basis of what was good for France, Germany, Italy and Spain rather than little Ireland and its small economy. The responsibility is shared between this govt's policies of stimulating the construction-sector through mass-immigration and refusal to tackle planning-issues that were making matters worse e.g. rezoning, failure to implement Bacon Report in full with respect to social and affordable housing. But again - responsibility also rests with the ECB, which to be fair was only doing the job allotted to it under the Maastricht Treaty. The underlying point is that we have learned from this (or should have) the dangers of blindly waltzing into further European integration without taking the long-view of how things might work out not necessarily to our advantage. Indeed Nice could also be accused of having a partial responsibility for the recession by providing much of the stimulus in terms of demand for housing through mass-immigration from Eastern Europe. Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them. Give us Jobs - not Lisbon.

The main lesson to be learned is that in areas where the Irish government has total responsibility, they also produce a total mess. Is it a coincidence that government revenues are collapsing and that taxation remains the exclusive responsibility of the Irish government? Is it a coincidence that the health service is a total mess and is the total responsibility of the government with no EU input? Is it a coincidence that education is a disaster and that also is the exclusive competence of the government with no EU say in it?

[anlkestony]

Lisbon will pass through scaremongering and fear over the economy

[keepitreal]

Lisbon will pass through scaremongering and fear over the economy

Well there mightn't be any lisbon left to pass... Czech Rep is very very doubtful. Germany has yet to ratify as well. The electorate is wise to this shower in govt, and them driving for a yes will be ignored for the main part. People are angry and regardless of it being the wrong thing to do, they'll use the 2nd referendum to really whip FF IMO.