Government in Ireland is a mess: Better say Yes?

[Baron von Biffo]

"We need to get up and change it ourselves" - Which one do you REALLY think is going to happen!?

I've gone to 4 protest marches and some debates during this year already - I dont see ANYTHING changing and its because for some messed up or self centred reason, there is still 23% of the population EVEN NOW who will still vote FF!!!!! How do you change that when even a dog could see what useless scumbags they are!!

You're a member of the political elite and you ask the people for their support in a referendum. The people deny you their support so you have a second referendum on exactly the same matter. This time you threaten them with dire consequences if they don't give the answer you want. They cave in and support you.

Do you respect them?

[loaded32]

Also self defeatist drivel? I have never voted for FF and I don't identify with them or their culture in any way, shape or form, they are nothing to do with me or my life apart from calling the shots in the place I live. People in Brussels, or anywhere for that matter, are no more foreign to me than John O'Donohoe, Bertie, Mary Couglan etc. or their buddies in FAS, Anglo and the rest.

Here Here!! Being honest and confronting the facts is now deemed "defeatist drivel" !?

Im not the one lying to himself here! The last opinion poll showing FF at 23% was proof enough for me that things aint going to change here in a hurry!!!

[Illustro]

As the revelations keep coming every day, showing NOTHING has changed since we went wallop and the chrony/corrupt culture still exists at every corner while our hospitals have to close their doors for 1 whole day on end..etc etc..

...We have proven beyonod a shadow of a doubt that we are not mature enough to govern ourselves with any credibility or sense of social justice.

Bring on Brussels and all its Beurocracy and the germans I say!!! Ive lived there and they have a proper Public Transport System and Modern Schools without damp and rats and nobody waiting on trolleys in their A&E's !

Was the chemical lobotomy painful?

[goatstoe]

As a No voter I think that is the most convincing Yes argument. But I do believe we are capable of political reform and there is a growing belief that the system needs to be changed.

There is nothing about us that makes us incapable of good government but we need to re-cast our politics urgently.

Tradcat I agree with your aspiration that we are capable of good governance if - and thats a big IF - we were to re-cast our politics. However in my experience of the electorate in this country they are by and large conservative, and then on the margins an ubercatholic/neocon style right wing (Ganley, Dana etc.)and an outdated hardcore left (Sinn Fein).

Nowhere do I see the emergence of a credible alternative to the established status quo. Even in this time of economic upheavel Labour will still play second fiddle to either FF or FG. The best chance for improvements in Irish health, education and social policies is to encourage and promote the European influence and negate as much as possible the Anglo/American model in health etc..

Vote YES to Lisbon and keep Ireland central in Europe.

[Syllabus]

Tradcat I agree with your aspiration that we are capable of good governance if - and thats a big IF - we were to re-cast our politics. However in my experience of the electorate in this country they are by and large conservative, and then on the margins an ubercatholic/neocon style right wing (Ganley, Dana etc.)and an outdated hardcore left (Sinn Fein).

Nowhere do I see the emergence of a credible alternative to the established status quo. Even in this time of economic upheavel Labour will still play second fiddle to either FF or FG. The best chance for improvements in Irish health, education and social policies is to encourage and promote the European influence and negate as much as possible the Anglo/American model in health etc..

Vote YES to Lisbon and keep Ireland central in Europe.

Do you think People should vote Labour at the next general election? Surely you aren't suggesting that they would be any better? Somehow, I reckon, they will be the only ones who escape the backlash of the hole we are in. Labour always seem to dodge bullets that are targeted at the political establishment as a whole, despite the fact that they are an integral part of the same establishment that has buried our economy and attempted to subvert our constitution. They were no less responsible for the travesty against the freely expressed instruction of the people in the last Referendum than FF. If they believed that the people should have a say intheir own governance, they would have fought tooth and nail against a re-run of Lisbon.

Nope. Thats not what they did. Instead they voted to ignore our decision in Brussels, and participated in the cover-up of thug Punchious De Rossa's assault on an Irish citizen. Having called Lisbon dead after the last attempt, they then proceeded to push this treason in spite of the tacit admission that the result last time round should have been final and definitive. They are no better than FF or their sham opposition lackeys FG.

Well...maybe a bit different. I wonder what percentage of TD's in FF or FG are...'ex'....communists?