Dutch poll reveals sustained opposition to more EU power amid demand for referendum

[Jeremy van Oranje-Nassau]

Its a well know fact that the Dutch and the French both voted down the initial constitution back in 2005.

The end result wasy that 61.6% of the Dutch people vote tegen (against) the European Constitution, while 38.4% voted voor (for) the Constitution. Turnout was unexpectedly high, at 62.8%, more than the previous three elections.

It was a clear signal that the Dutch had concerns but these were written off at the time as a protest vote against the Dutch Govt.

So it would be interesting to reexamine where the Dutch now see themselves vis-a-vis the Lisbon treaty.

The most famous of Dutch Pollsters is Maurice deHond and his company conducts regular polls that are used widely as the assessment of public opinion at any given moment.

On the 1st of March they released the results of a opinion poll focussing on people's reactions to Wilders and the PVV partaking in the Euro elections this year for the first time. But they also looked into attitudes about Europe and the treaty.

It makes for some interesting reading.

When asked : What do you think about the fact that the current treaty was not put to a referendum?(pg 2 - wat is uw mening over het feit dat...)
59% answered it should have been put to a referendum.
37% answered it is good that no new referendum was held.
5% didnt't know.

When asked: What do you think of the interference/influence of Brussels over Holland?
51% said the present level of intervention/interference was too high;
34% said the current level was acceptable;
7% said the current level was too little;
8% did not know/respond.

Its clear that there continues to be significant disquiet in the Netherlands about the way the Lisbon treaty was ratified in that state and also serious concern about the direction of the EU and whether that direction should involve more EU influence, less or a retention of the status Quo.

Its interesting to note in passing that their does not appear to be a strong link between the PVV's recent growth and the continuing opposition to Lisbon (as per pages 3&4 of the survey.)

Link: https://n10.noties.nl/peil.nl/ go to 01 March PVV... Its in Dutch though I can do some translation if needed but only briefly)

[FutureTaoiseach]

This underlines that the EU has a serious democratic-deficit. An EU that overrules national no votes and closes down parties in the EU is oligarchic - not democratic. Sovereignty that a national electorate has voted to retain should be retained. Anything else is imperialism and Vichyism.

[setanta]

This underlines that the EU has a serious democratic-deficit. An EU that overrules national no votes and closes down parties in the EU is oligarchic - not democratic. Sovereignty that a national electorate has voted to retain should be retained. Anything else is imperialism and Vichyism.

FT lies again ... back to the old tricks that polluted the Lisbon referendum campaign last June.

Lie #1: "An EU that overrules national no votes ..."

The EU has no power to "overrule" the ratification process or ratification outcomes of member states.


Lie #2: "... closes down parties in the EU ..."

The EU has no power to close down parties in the EU nor has it ever sought such power.

[Jeremy van Oranje-Nassau]

Setanta,

If Future Taoiseach has made a mistake its only to say that the EU over-ruled the Dutch people's no.

He should have said that the Dutch Govt. over-ruled their own people's no.

The substantive point of democracy circumvented still holds though?

[FutureTaoiseach]

Setanta I stand over what I said about closing down political-parties. The EP voted to raise the minimum thresholds of MEPs and countries, effecting closing down the eurosceptic Independence and Democracy group, as well as handing sweeping powers to the EP president to clamp down on debate in the EP - so much for the EP being called a democratic institution by the Federalists and integrationists. The same EP that voted against a motion promising to respect the result of our referendum - including Proinsias de Rossa. .

[Trampas]

Setanta I stand over what I said about closing down political-parties. The EP voted to raise the minimum thresholds of MEPs and countries, effecting closing down the eurosceptic Independence and Democracy group.

Not to worry FT. It will be opening again in June.

[ibis]

Setanta,

If Future Taoiseach has made a mistake its only to say that the EU over-ruled the Dutch people's no.

He should have said that the Dutch Govt. over-ruled their own people's no.

The substantive point of democracy circumvented still holds though?

The Dutch Constitution allows for 'consultative' referendums only, not binding. However, the Dutch government found that it was, in reality, bound by the 'consultative' referendum on the Constitution - something which, in turn, impugns the constitutional supremacy of the Dutch parliament.

[locke]

A Dutch opinion poll also said the PVV would be the largest party in the event of an election.

If that's the case, Dutch opinion is best ignored by the Irish.

[locke]

Setanta I stand over what I said about closing down political-parties. The EP voted to raise the minimum thresholds of MEPs and countries, effecting closing down the eurosceptic Independence and Democracy group.

The new EP threholds are still lower than the Dail threshold.

[MacCoise]

The Dutch Constitution allows for 'consultative' referendums only, not binding. However, the Dutch government found that it was, in reality, bound by the 'consultative' referendum on the Constitution - something which, in turn, impugns the constitutional supremacy of the Dutch parliament.

Actually ibis they just didn't like the result