Are the Irish Times hiding a bad Lisbon poll?

[kerrynorth]

Normally the second part on a Saturday of the Irish Times/MRBI poll takes a different angle to the main poll findings dealing with an issue other than party politics. However, this morning the poll data revealed really just form part of yesterday's findings. It is also inconceiveable that the Irish Times would not have had the MRBI ask a series of questions on a Lisbon rerun in their polling. That is just totally inconceiveable particularly with the December summit approaching.

In light of the Decembr summit if there was poll data that could have been in anyway construed to support a rerun then the Times would have been shouting it from the rooftops. However, because the Times has been absolutely silent on the issue I have no doubt but that the Times are suppressing a bad poll from the perspective of embolding the government to commit to a rerun.

Does anyone really believe otherwise?

[ibis]

Normally the second part on a Saturday of the Irish Times/MRBI poll takes a different angle to the main poll findings dealing with an issue other than party politics. However, this morning the poll data revealed really just form part of yesterday's findings. It is also inconceiveable that the Irish Times would not have had the MRBI ask a series of questions on a Lisbon rerun in their polling. That is just totally inconceiveable particularly with the December summit approaching.

In light of the Decembr summit if there was poll data that could have been in anyway construed to support a rerun then the Times would have been shouting it from the rooftops. However, because the Times has been absolutely silent on the issue I have no doubt but that the Times are surpressing a bad poll from the perspective of embolding the government to commit to a rerun.

Does anyone really believe otherwise?

Well, it could have been an invisible poll about the popularity of John Gormley instead. When it's an invisible poll, the sky's the limit.

[Catalpa]

Don't know but only the truly deluded could believe that a Lisbon Mark II would pass muster with the Irish People right now.

Only possible way Cowen might shade it if he were to convince the voters in a GE next year that he has the savvy & experience (ala Gordon Brown) to lead us out of this mess and that a Lisbon poll on the same day as a General Election with FF pulling out all the stops to get its core vote out and voting YES in the National interest.

But that would be a huge gamble - an all or nothing throw of the dice that would make or break Cowen's political career.

[Clanrickard]

Normally the second part on a Saturday of the Irish Times/MRBI poll takes a different angle to the main poll findings dealing with an issue other than party politics. However, this morning the poll data revealed really just form part of yesterday's findings. It is also inconceiveable that the Irish Times would not have had the MRBI ask a series of questions on a Lisbon rerun in their polling. That is just totally inconceiveable particularly with the December summit approaching.

In light of the Decembr summit if there was poll data that could have been in anyway construed to support a rerun then the Times would have been shouting it from the rooftops. However, because the Times has been absolutely silent on the issue I have no doubt but that the Times are surpressing a bad poll from the perspective of embolding the government to commit to a rerun.

Does anyone really believe otherwise?

Quite possible. The IT has disgraced itself on this issue and I would put nothing past it. One thing is for sure, the government should be letting it known the arrogant and bullying attitude of M. Sarkozy will mean no movement while he has the Presideny of the EU. But of course Mumbling Martin will be muttering away in the corner and nothing will happen.

[Question R24U]

This shows what it wrong with opinion polls obsession, they ask silly questions - would Ahern do better than Cowen - menacing ones - bruton over kenny - but do not ask or if asked do not publish results on real issues where opinions count such as lisbon. (i would like to know how the public would feel about income tax rises, but that is another story). Is there any way, eg data commissioner request by a respondent in the poll, to force them to release the results? Would the governmnent get to see them anyways so perhaps a dail question could dot it?

[blacbloc]

Don't know but only the truly deluded could believe that a Lisbon Mark II would pass muster with the Irish People right now.

Only possible way Cowen might shade it if he were to convince the voters in a GE next year that he has the savvy & experience (ala Gordon Brown) to lead us out of this mess and that a Lisbon poll on the same day as a General Election with FF pulling out all the stops to get its core vote out and voting YES in the National interest.

But that would be a huge gamble - an all or nothing throw of the dice that would make or break Cowen's political career.

You mean the core vote that has just dwindled to nought ?

[constitutionus]

i really dont know but considering how undeniably biased the IRISH TIMES is on lisbon i wouldnt put it past them.

particularly considering how they bury stories they cant ignore that refer to lisbon in the most bizarre sections when they dont match their agenda , which miraculously end up on page one when they do.

it does seem unusual that theres not one what with the Czech prez over here during the week causing all kinds of political ruptions and margot walstrom (spl?) engaging in a media saturation program the last few days. that, combined with their obsession with the treaty, leads me to think prehaps one was suppressed.

still easy way to find out. if any of the 1000 people they interviewed use this site surely they could tell us if they had questions put to them or not. i seem to remember posters saying theyve been approached by the polling company in the past so prehaps they can enlighten us.

on a personal level im starting to think lisbon is dead regardless of any merit it might have . i think its gone beyond the treaty itself now in the eyes of the public and were into the realms of the very concept of democracy itself as its clear we'll be voting on the exact same document in a blatant act of contempt . i think the goverements reaction to the "no" and its quite frankly sinsister actions in terms of attempting to interfer in aspects of debate and free speach through proposed leglislation, up to actually calling on RTE to engage in propaganda, has *************************ed the ears of alot of people who ordinairly would give them the time of day.

if thats the case its buggerd, no matter how well the campaign is orchestrated

[wombat]

on a personal level im starting to think lisbon is dead regardless of any merit it might have . i think its gone beyond the treaty itself now in the eyes of the public and were into the realms of the very concept of democracy itself as its clear we'll be voting on the exact same document in a blatant act of contempt .

I think you're correct - the only way to get people to vote for parts of Lisbon will be to alter it to such an extent that they believe they are being asked a different question. I voted for Lisbon only out of a sense of loyalty to some of the Yes campaigners but I was unable to find any convincing arguments when discussing it with work colleagues and my enthusiasm has waned since then.

[Mikewex]

I'm actually trying to remember (it was only Wed they were here, memory like a sieve, me), but I'm pretty sure the last question was the "If there was a vote etc etc" one on Lisbon

[Podolski]

The Irish Times has been utterly ruthless in its support for Lisbon. It is the most mercenary newspaper in Ireland.