Pressure on Ireland to leave EU

[seabhcan]

[quote=D.Harry]

..The nightmare is that Ireland needs to hold a referendum to leave. I can imagine a situation where a referendum to leave is held, and rejected. Followed by a new referendum on Lisbon, which is also rejected. We would be in limbo - trapped by that wonderful constitution, which, I am reminded on this site, people died for.

Would it not be more correct to say 'trapped by the terms of the EU treaties'?

No. There is no EU treaty that forces us to be a member of the EU. Our national constitution has done that sinse 1973. We are legally bound to be an EU member and would need a constitutional ammendment to withdraw.

This is hypothetical but isn't the EU established by Lisbon different from the EU we joined? Otherwise why was it necessary to place our membership of the EU established by Lisbon in the referendum? If the other countries could ratify Lisbon independently of Ireland and thereby establish the new EU we would then be outside in any case.[/quote:2y3vtfe6]

Thats true. We would be permantly a member of the Nice-EU, and perhaps its only member.

[seabhcan]

The nightmare is that Ireland needs to hold a referendum to leave. I can imagine a situation where a referendum to leave is held, and rejected. Followed by a new referendum on Lisbon, which is also rejected. We would be in limbo - trapped by that wonderful constitution, which, I am reminded on this site, people died for.

I wonder if we do need a referendum to leave. In principle, it would represent the State recovering powers.

The irish constitution says we are a member. Only a referendum can change that.

[MacCoise]

I agree with this.

Perhaps there could be some temporary fudge: a suspension of membership for 5 years, with our MEPs becoming observer members.

.

Why? Waht did we do wrong?

[seabhcan]

I agree with this.

Perhaps there could be some temporary fudge: a suspension of membership for 5 years, with our MEPs becoming observer members.

.

Why? Waht did we do wrong?

We have the problem that other countries no longer wish to be a member of our Nice-EU. They are planning to leave and set up a Lisbon-EU. We have to find a way out of being left as the only member of the Nice-EU.

[Rebel CNC]

Could have a referendum with choice of (a) leaving or (b) staying on board but accepting Lisbon.

However, while the Brits and some smaller nations continue to support us, we won't need to go down this road. Things will muddle along reasonably well in a pre-Lisbon fashion.

[andylfc77]

Incredible stuff, Im reading the book "the Nazis a warning from history", at the moment, this article would not be out of place there

[MacCoise]

I agree with this.

Perhaps there could be some temporary fudge: a suspension of membership for 5 years, with our MEPs becoming observer members.

.

Why? Waht did we do wrong?

We have the problem that other countries no longer wish to be a member of our Nice-EU. They are planning to leave and set up a Lisbon-EU. We have to find a way out of being left as the only member of the Nice-EU.

************************ them, are they not democrats?

[Universal_001]

I agree with this.

Perhaps there could be some temporary fudge: a suspension of membership for 5 years, with our MEPs becoming observer members.

The nightmare is that Ireland needs to hold a referendum to leave. I can imagine a situation where a referendum to leave is held, and rejected. Followed by a new referendum on Lisbon, which is also rejected. We would be in limbo - trapped by that wonderful constitution, which, I am reminded on this site, people died for.

and the hysteria continues...we would not be in limbo, we would be operating under Nice, just like we've been doing fine SINCE Nice

[seabhcan]

Could have a referendum with choice of (a) leaving or (b) staying on board but accepting Lisbon.

However, while the Brits and some smaller nations continue to support us, we won't need to go down this road. Things will muddle along reasonably well in a pre-Lisbon fashion.

Could you legally have such a biased referendum question? I think you would need to split it into two referenda, with the option that we neither leave nor accept Lisbon (ie. the status quo)

[ivnryn]

We have the problem that other countries no longer wish to be a member of our Nice-EU. They are planning to leave and set up a Lisbon-EU. We have to find a way out of being left as the only member of the Nice-EU.

They are also planning to move all the assets of the Nice-EU to the Lisbon-EU and the rules of both the Lisbon-EU and Nice-EU require that all countries ratify. A lisbon-26 would require a completely new treaty and the breaking of the Nice rules.

Also, I don't agree that amending the treaties creates a fundamentally different entity. If we had voted Yes, would we have effectively dissolved the Republic and created a new one ?