The British media and Lisbon

[expat girl]

It seems that the media coverage of the Irish No vote in Britain is unusually positive. There was lots of discussion of the lack of democratic mandate for the EU constitution (torpedoed by France and Holland) and Lisbon (just nuked by our good selves). Some sections of the newspapers seemed almost to be begging for an Irish No, before the vote.

I think the UK is one of the 18 who have already ratified the treaty... does anyone else think Gordon Brown's existence is about to be made even more miserable by their meedja in this regard??

Talking to a few UK citizens at work, there seems to be a suspicion that one of Cameron's first moves in power would be to de-ratify Lisbon

any thoughts, folks??

[freedomlover]

I now think that the most likely outcome in the next few years is that Britain will leave the European Union and Ireland will follow suit. Allready, polls show a majority in Britain are opposed to membership of the European Union. That was before today's result. But, this result will give a massive boost to Eurosceptics in Britain. Its only 23 months maximum until the Tories take over in Britain. Today's result guarantees that the Tories will de-ratify Lisbon. That will prompt a crisis between Britain and the European Union that will end with Britain leaving. Of course, there will still be free trade and all that, but all the political links will go. Once Britain exits the European Union, Ireland will have no choice but to follow suit. Once we're both out, there will then be pressure for some kind of formal link between Ireland and Britain. Not a full Union between Ireland and Britain, but something similar to the current relationship between Northern Ireland and the Republic, with probably Ireland rejoining the Commonwealth as well.

[DeGaulle]

I now think that the most likely outcome in the next few years is that Britain will leave the European Union and Ireland will follow suit. Allready, polls show a majority in Britain are opposed to membership of the European Union. That was before today's result. But, this result will give a massive boost to Eurosceptics in Britain. Its only 23 months maximum until the Tories take over in Britain. Today's result guarantees that the Tories will de-ratify Lisbon. That will prompt a crisis between Britain and the European Union that will end with Britain leaving. Of course, there will still be free trade and all that, but all the political links will go. Once Britain exits the European Union, Ireland will have no choice but to follow suit. Once we're both out, there will then be pressure for some kind of formal link between Ireland and Britain. Not a full Union between Ireland and Britain, but something similar to the current relationship between Northern Ireland and the Republic, with probably Ireland rejoining the Commonwealth as well.

We should have a referendum before joining the Commonwealth. I'd vote No to that.

[Ambrose]

We should have a referendum before joining the Commonwealth. I'd vote No to that.

I think most people would.

[expat girl]

I now think that the most likely outcome in the next few years is that Britain will leave the European Union and Ireland will follow suit. Allready, polls show a majority in Britain are opposed to membership of the European Union. That was before today's result. But, this result will give a massive boost to Eurosceptics in Britain. Its only 23 months maximum until the Tories take over in Britain. Today's result guarantees that the Tories will de-ratify Lisbon. That will prompt a crisis between Britain and the European Union that will end with Britain leaving. Of course, there will still be free trade and all that, but all the political links will go. Once Britain exits the European Union, Ireland will have no choice but to follow suit. Once we're both out, there will then be pressure for some kind of formal link between Ireland and Britain. Not a full Union between Ireland and Britain, but something similar to the current relationship between Northern Ireland and the Republic, with probably Ireland rejoining the Commonwealth as well.

I had been trying to push that particular train of thought out of my head..... the thought of cuddling up closer to a Tory led UK is giving me the collywobbles (although what worries me even more is the fact that the Tories are making far more sense than New Labour these days... even to Toryphobes such as my husband).....

I suspect however that you might be right on the money... but I'd vote No to the commonwealth...

[freedomlover]

I now think that the most likely outcome in the next few years is that Britain will leave the European Union and Ireland will follow suit. Allready, polls show a majority in Britain are opposed to membership of the European Union. That was before today's result. But, this result will give a massive boost to Eurosceptics in Britain. Its only 23 months maximum until the Tories take over in Britain. Today's result guarantees that the Tories will de-ratify Lisbon. That will prompt a crisis between Britain and the European Union that will end with Britain leaving. Of course, there will still be free trade and all that, but all the political links will go. Once Britain exits the European Union, Ireland will have no choice but to follow suit. Once we're both out, there will then be pressure for some kind of formal link between Ireland and Britain. Not a full Union between Ireland and Britain, but something similar to the current relationship between Northern Ireland and the Republic, with probably Ireland rejoining the Commonwealth as well.

I had been trying to push that particular train of thought out of my head..... the thought of cuddling up closer to a Tory led UK is giving me the collywobbles (although what worries me even more is the fact that the Tories are making far more sense than New Labour these days... even to Toryphobes such as my husband).....

I suspect however that you might be right on the money... but I'd vote No to the commonwealth...

The commonwealth bit would probably be part of a package involving much stronger All-Ireland bodies, effectively the economic re-unification of this island. Because of the Celtic Tiger, most unionists are no longer opposed to, indeed actively seek, far greater economic integration with the rest of the island. However, they have a strong sentimental attachment to the Monarchy. An economically re-united Ireland, but with some sort of link to the Monarchy, would be ideal from their point of view. Whatever the timescale involved, today's result clearly signposts that Ireland has given up seeing its future as a European country and is instead heading back to being an integral part of the English-speaking group of countries. I think Magill magazine calls it the Anglosphere. Driving us in that direction is what Libertas is all about.

[Jim236]

It seems that the media coverage of the Irish No vote in Britain is unusually positive.

I completely disagree. I posted a reply in another topic regarding the reaction of foreign media, particularly those in Britain, to the outcome of today's result:

I've watched reactions on Sky News, BBC News, CNN and euronews, all of which have shown incredible bias in favour of the YES side in the face of a major defeat to the treaty by a clear majority of the electorate.

The woman on BBC News was interviewing a UKIP MEP who welcomed the outcome of the vote, but she persisted in asking him "why should 1 country stop this treaty from taking effect when 18 others have agreed to it, should their vote not matter?", and his reaction couldn't have been more perfect. He reminded the stupid cow that none of those 18 countries have put the treaty to a public vote and if they did there would be several NOs and Ireland would not be alone today. Even after his remarks, she then turned to a BBC political analyst on the outcome of the referendum and argued the same point!

Why is it that foreign media fail to grasp that you cannot compare the outcome of Ireland's referendum with the outcome of a parliamentary vote, you are not comparing like-with-like! Until those countries have the balls to put this sham of a treaty to their own people, they are in no position to criticise Ireland's position or in any way put pressure on the Irish to 'find a solution'.

Another thing I noticed the foreign media are saying and what apparantly a lot of MEPs are saying too is that the Irish referendum was too influenced by eurosceptic media and that people voted it down because of domestic concerns that had nothing to do with the treaty and also because the treaty was too much about the EU institutions. This is blatantly false and anyone who could argue as such is clearly ill-informed. Less than a week before this referendum a poll showed increased support for the government and a decrease for the opposition, so to say the electorate voted NO against the government is complete and utter bullsh*t. It is also untrue to claim there was too much emphasis on EU institutions with the treaty, it was the opposite here in fact, people were very concerned about the issues of us losing a permanent commissioner, having our voting weight halved, and losing vetoes in over 60 different areas which many saw as an erosion of our sovereignty, not to mention the requirement for us to increase our military capabilities, all of which is backed up by the Irish Times' poll asking why people voted NO.

Then theres the whole issue of abortion and conscription, which the foreign media have really homed in on. Firstly, abortion only came up when CÓIR mentioned it and only a few ignorant old timers fell for it, so it was never really part of the debate. Where conscription came from I don't know, it was never part of the debate. So again, the fact that so many foreign media and EU bureaucrats are concentrating on this as a reason for a NO vote shows their complete ignorance and disregard for the real reasons the Irish rejected this treaty.

[clytaemnestra]

I think the UK is one of the 18 who have already ratified the treaty... does anyone else think Gordon Brown's existence is about to be made even more miserable by their meedja in this regard??

Talking to a few UK citizens at work, there seems to be a suspicion that one of Cameron's first moves in power would be to de-ratify Lisbon

any thoughts, folks??

The United Kingdom has not ratified the Lisbon Treaty ... yet. The House of Lords will give its third reading to the bill that authorizes ratification of the Treaty on 18 June. What will be interesting is how energetically the Conservatives will seek, at this very late stage, to prevent ratification. I understand that Lord Strathclyde, the Conservative Leader in the Lords, is already saying that he will spearhead these efforts, prevailing upon the House to vote down the bill. There is some confidence that they may do so, emboldened by the Irish vote into defying the expressed will of the House of Commons. David Cameron for his part will be very keen to see the ratification bill defeated, not only because he loathes the Lisbon Treaty and all it represents, but also owing to the fact that it instantly endears him to the Murdoch Press, especially The Sun. Even in the last few days, David Davis's decision to resign from the Commons to force a by-election on the issue of 42-day detention has driven something of a wedge between the Conservatives and The Sun. A nice little European crisis could help the two of them forget their latest tiff.

[expat girl]

I completely disagree. I posted a reply in another topic regarding the reaction of foreign media, particularly those in Britain, to the outcome of today's result:

I've watched reactions on Sky News, BBC News, CNN and euronews, all of which have shown incredible bias in favour of the YES side in the face of a major defeat to the treaty by a clear majority of the electorate.

Dunno about that... C4 news tonight was screaming at Dick Roche that the Treaty (constitution) had been knackered by three sets of voters and should now be declared dead... Dick was hedging a few bets there

The Beeb the other night was swanning around the Stephen's Green centre burbling about this being the third chance for one of the populations of Europe to give this thing the heave ho...

and the Indo here was being ticked off by some panicked Eurocrat for reprinting some Eurosceptic article by... the observer

[Jim236]

I completely disagree. I posted a reply in another topic regarding the reaction of foreign media, particularly those in Britain, to the outcome of today's result:

I've watched reactions on Sky News, BBC News, CNN and euronews, all of which have shown incredible bias in favour of the YES side in the face of a major defeat to the treaty by a clear majority of the electorate.

Dunno about that... C4 news tonight was screaming at Dick Roche that the Treaty (constitution) had been knackered by three sets of voters and should now be declared dead... Dick was hedging a few bets there

The Beeb the other night was swanning around the Stephen's Green centre burbling about this being the third chance for one of the populations of Europe to give this thing the heave ho...

and the Indo here was being ticked off by some panicked Eurocrat for reprinting some Eurosceptic article by... the observer

I didn't see the coverage on C4 but they're usually the exception and I'm glad they've shown less of a bias towards the YES side, though they were doing the opposite just a week ago when the Irish Times poll was released.