Lisbon is a proxy vote on Turkish accession - vote NO

[myksav]

I don't see why Turkey has any less right to EU membership than anyone else. The irony of countries like Britain and Germany condemning Turkey fortheir human rights record is frankly, priceless.

I looked at a map recently and it showed that Turkey is mostly in Asia Minor, the Asian continent. I thought we were in the EURPOEAN Union. When does it become the Eur-Asian Union?

The "irony" is that Germany and Britian are no longer the imperial "bad-boys" on human rights. We've gotten past WW2.

[Trampas]

Perhaps some of the Turkish lobby on this site could comment on the legal proceedings filed by the Turkish Constitutional Court against the ruling AKP. Or maybe they are unaware that the AKP is likely to be closed down for “acts against the principle of secularism.” Of course the AKP will just resurrect the party under a new name (as before) and carry on with the islamisation of the Turkish state. Perhaps you people have no concerns about the largest (ultimately) state in the EU being an Islamic Republic whose citizens have freedom of movement throughout the EU. How do you people feel about Turkey’s commitment to patrolling 2,000 km of EU borders with Iran, Iraq and Syria, among others ?

[prospero]

Turkey? you must be joking.

[madura]

I don't see why Turkey has any less right to EU membership than anyone else. The irony of countries like Britain and Germany condemning Turkey fortheir human rights record is frankly, priceless.

Just a pretext, surely? The real obstacles are Turkey's population size and level of economic development along with cultural differences. Too big, too poor etc.

[zakalwe]

while not in favour of turkey joining....

germany and britian committed genocide after turkey committed genocide against the armenians.

for me the biggest stumbling block for turkey entry into the EU is the occupation of cyprus.

i think its too poor, too big and too muslim (although secular in nature, i reckon if the army let go of power it'll take a hard turn towards a more islamic state).

give it another generation and see.

[ManOfReason]

Man of reason - You did not take up any of the points above.

Turkey has been looking for EU entry long before the 1990s as a point of information.
Secondly, Sarkozy could be dumped out of the French presidency very quickly - leading to a new president with a new policy on Turkey.

Bottom line and back to Lisbon - Lisbon facilitates an ever expanding Union.
Voting No is only practical expression that Irish people will have to voice opposition to Turkish accession to the EU.

Let me take you you on a couple of your more ridiculous points:

They have failed to assimilate in Germany, there is not reason to believe they would do it here.

Turkish people have not been allowed to assimilate in Germany. Turks who travelled to work in Germany were never allow citizenship. Worse still their children born in German were not granted citizenship either, not their children either. But you claim it is their fault they have not assimilated, wrong.

It is a country with an appalling human rights record.

Ever heard of Germany? Ever heard of Romania? Portugal in the 70's?

We need a legally binding assurance in advance of Lisbon vote that Turkey will not be admitted to the EU

No we don't because there is significant movement within the EU to allow Turkey to join. We will probably continue along the lines of some kind of special arrangement.


Secondly regarding Sarkozy: I said French GovernmentS, not just Sarkozy, have not and will not alllow Turkey entry. Outside of Turkey who exactly is lobbying for Turkish entry?

You are race baiting to promote the NO vote. That is just shameful.

[Apparatchik]

I think Lisbon ends the veto on further Enlargement, so it really is a vote on Turkish membership. No to Turkey - no to exploitation and displacement. Also the plan to rotate the Commissioners in Lisbon is clearly part of an agenda of making Turkish entry more feasible. Vote no.

Turkish membership will be a calamity for the EU. THere is a real danger that current membership talks will give Turkish accession an unstoppable momentum. The governments of UK and Finland are the chief promoters of this lunacy. Needless to say the people of the EU (including UK and Finland) do not wish to see Turkish accession in any circumstances.

Interesting speech here by Britain's Foreign and Comonwealth Office Minister Jim Murphy earlier this year, urging Turkish Accesssion and outlining how Lisbon opens the way:

http://www.britainusa.com/sections/arti ... =0&a=47961

[Trampas]

Outside of Turkey who exactly is lobbying for Turkish entry?

You really don't know what you are talking about Manofreason. The UK position is set out above. In addition Finland regards Turkey as a client state. Also, before the current Turkish membership talks could begin in 2005 there had to be unanimity among the EU-25. Only Austria resisted but they were quickly steamrolled. Who else is lobbying ? Why Ireland in fact. Check out the debate on Turkey at the Forum on Europe. Not a single member of the Oireachtas opposes Turkish membership which is only supported by 29% of the Irish people [Eurobarometer].

[adamirer]

The point, repeated again and again by the logical people here, is that Turkey joining or not joining has nothing to do with Lisbon. Turkey will join if the 27 wantt hem to join - regardless of the vote result - so certain peoples hobby horse, including ym father in laws - is a non runner in this debate. It's like saying Sunderland wil be demoted if Ronaldo joins Real... totally separate issues.

A Lisbon No will not stop Turkey joining. Its a moot point.

[Trampas]

A Lisbon No will not stop Turkey joining

Then what will stop this lunacy ? Certainly not the votes of the vast majority of EU "citizens" as expressed in successive Eurobarometer polls (until the EU stopped asking the question).